Subtitling on Digi receivers

[edd173]

Hi,

I am presently using a fixed dish on 19.2e with a cheap Televes free to air receiver which i got from Ebay a couple of years ago. It isnt very good anyway and recently has begun freezing a lot and switching from televison to radio channels of its own accord, so i am looking to upgrade to something new.

I am not too fussed about CAMS etc and am going to get another free to air box, but my main criteria for a new box is its subtitling capability, as i am learning German. I was quite clued up about satellite in the analogue days but I am not too sure about digital. I have noticed that there are different forms of subtitling and need a box that supports all formats, or at least all that the German broadcasters on 19.2 use. If anyone is able to offer me any advice on a good box for my needs i would be most grateful. And any advice on how many programmes tend to be subtitled would also be appreciated. Cost below £250 isnt really an issue, i would rather spend extra to get a decent receiver. Thanks and happy Christmas

Edd

[edd173]

Sorry to push this up guys, but if anyone has the slightest idea it would be a great help. I have already gone into a couple of dealers who put subtitles on then scratched their heads!! I tried wiring a slybox up to 19.2 with subtitles on and got nowt. Some receivers offer `teletext` subtitling - i guess they dont mean standard `analogue` teletext cos surely any receiver can get that?

[Topper]

Firstly sorry to be a pain in the arse back but if you could just put subtitles into the forum search bar you will see about 50 threads on the subject and 12 in the last two months if you could take the time to read those first. Secondly it is a bit of a specialist area thus the average user who never uses them will not be able to answer your plea for help. Thirdly it is a national holiday and a lot of forum members go away this time of year and some only check in once a week anyhow. This is after all a self help forum but unfortunately a lot of people ask first then read later.

My receiver has an option in the main menu to switch on this function but not only do I not use it I do not watch 19.2 deg East so like (I suspect) many others) am unable to help you

[edd173]

Firstly sorry to be a pain in the arse back but if you could just put subtitles into the forum search bar you will see about 50 threads on the subject and 12 in the last two months if you could take the time to read those first. Secondly it is a bit of a specialist area thus the average user who never uses them will not be able to answer your plea for help. Thirdly it is a national holiday and a lot of forum members go away this time of year and some only check in once a week anyhow. This is after all a self help forum but unfortunately a lot of people ask first then read later.

My receiver has an option in the main menu to switch on this function but not only do I not use it I do not watch 19.2 deg East so like (I suspect) many others) am unable to help you

I only added the second post because i didnt want to dissuade anyone who may have a snippet of useful info from replying, i was not being impatient and am well aware that it may take a few weeks to receive all the advice i need!

Unfortunately the 50 threads obtained by typing `subtitles` into the search bar offer no advice in relation to my specific query - rather than being a case of me not bothering to check first as you have assumed!

I would have thought a query like mine would be quite permissable on a forum such as this, surely many of the questions posted could be answered if one were to trawl back through years of archive.

[Topper]

Apologies for my assumption but it is you that "is pushing this" not me. The problems are still as I have already outlined.

I would have thought a query like mine would be quite permissable on a forum such as this, surely many of the questions posted could be answered if one were to trawl back through years of archive.

Nobody apart from you is saying that it is not permissable. I could not agree more that people should trawl back for information and that is why I posted what I did, my comments are based upon observation of members and their queries and the way they go about solving them . The majority of people ...yourself excepted do not bother to search at all.
Your true problem with this is that the subtitle function is invariably not used by the vast majority of users who have no need of it. Indeed, on many channels the service is not available at all. Out of the approx five thousands of channels out there I doubt anyone has a register telling you which channels subtitles are available on. And I also doubt anyone is able to tell you which receivers are able to display subtitles and since receivers are being discontinued all the time and new ones replace them the information becomes even harder to formulate into an answer. As you say if you wait long enough you may get some answers, I would however have thought it would be the kind of information available through a language department of a college or school or even the German broadcasters themselves. Have you tried their websites for information?

[john22]

Hi Edd173,
Like you I am, a Subtittle junkie.I have found after trying out several recs. I have never found one thats works with digital text except the Sky box which is great for digital text[can even record it to hard drive] Dont know much about Astra at 19.2 as I dont watch it much. On hotbird 13E. on the tips and multivision Chs. if you choose the english audio option you then have the option of french subs by using the page 888 on your tv text. It really is trail and error to see if they send down the subs with the singal.There is a v.good post on the forum explaining the difference between digtal and Page 888 text.But I have found that outside of Astra 2 digtal text is a con that does not work. If you discover a rec. that works on digital text let me know but I feel that your best bet for subs is the page 888 option. which will have nothing to do with the box you decide on but on your T.V. Hope I have been of help. John

[edd173]

Hi Edd173,
Like you I am, a Subtittle junkie.I have found after trying out several recs. I have never found one thats works with digital text except the Sky box which is great for digital text[can even record it to hard drive] Dont know much about Astra at 19.2 as I dont watch it much. On hotbird 13E. on the tips and multivision Chs. if you choose the english audio option you then have the option of french subs by using the page 888 on your tv text. It really is trail and error to see if they send down the subs with the singal.There is a v.good post on the forum explaining the difference between digtal and Page 888 text.But I have found that outside of Astra 2 digtal text is a con that does not work. If you discover a rec. that works on digital text let me know but I feel that your best bet for subs is the page 888 option. which will have nothing to do with the box you decide on but on your T.V. Hope I have been of help. John

Thanks for your help John and apologies for the delay in replying. I agree that Sky text is great and this is why i assumed the Germans would have it, but it all appears a bit hit and miss. Im probably gonna just go for a decent box from the `What Satellite` buyers guide and see how it goes.

[Skip Channel]

First of all I understand the frustation of both the poster wanting a relatively speedy response to a question posed and a forumite seeing what they believe to be the same question asked over and over again.

From what I gather about subtitles there isn't any single standard that seems to be followed by Europe's broadcasters. They all seem to do things in their own different way. It seems to boil down to direct-to-home providers and the boxes they impose on their customers.

IIRC there is supposed to be a DVB subtitling standard but I don't think any broadcasters/providers/STB manufacturers bother with it (at least not in the same way as DVD subs).

As has been said, teletext subtitles seem to be the best bet. Unfortunately different broadcasters/countries use different page numbers (unlike all UK broadcasters using page 888).

Thinking about it though - if you were to pick up a German receiver (free-to-air, CI or a Premiere one) it might be better suited to German broadcasts - I'd think a Technisat would be worth looking at - their receivers have a special EPG afterall (well they've given it a fancy title in german!)

[john22]

Thanks Edd173, For the response .Will keep the thread alive. I feel that with the vast movement of populations around the world that the T.V. providers will catch on to the value of subs. Anything would be better than the voice- over that some of the providers use {Polish T.V for example ] one voice-over for all the actors in a film. I wish you all the best in your choice of rec.
John22.

[spiney]

Subtitles ....

From my experience using a Comag (Lidl) SL65 sat receiver (mainly on Astra 1):

There's 2 subtitling methods:

1): The MPEG2 spec includes an option (specific data packets) for subtitles, this is the one used by the "subtitles" option of satellite receivers.

2): The older teletext system also has a subtitle function. Many satellite channels - especially German ones - transmit a full teletext service, which can also include subtitles. For this, you can either use the teletext function on your sat receiver, or some receivers have "VBI re-insertion", which instead allows use of the teletext decoder inside your tv set.

I've seen some subtitles on French progs on TV5 using method 1. i've not seen this so far on any German channels. Some might use method 2, but I don't know, since then you have to select the right teletext page (if your German's reasonably good, then the teletext instructions on each channel probably say whether there's subtitles!).

Note, there's a known problem with some Humax receivers, just before Christmas sombody found their Humax PVR sat receiver wouldn't work on method 1, only method 2! Apparently it's a known problem, and they contacted Humax tech support, but no joy (see appropriate thread, somewhere on this website!).

On Astra2, the main UK channels - BBC and ITV - use both methods simultaneously, to suit Sky and all other sat receiver types, but I don't think any Astra1 channels do this!
(added correction, i think only the BBC do this!).

So, i'd go for a receiver that supports both subtitling methods, but avoid Humax! And sorry, but I don't know if there's any German subtitling at all, at least on the free to air channels.

[spiney]

oops, i'm missing the obvious ...... (again)!

MTV Central - on 19.2E - often has English audio but with German subtitles. However, these aren't delivered as "subtitling", but as part of the actual picture.

If buying a new receiver, make sure it's got "blind scan" (to automatically find new channels). You should be able to get a good FTA one for around £100. Known brands are Echostar, Manhattan, Technomate. You can check the individual receiver specs on manufacturer websites, for both subtitles and teletext functions.

For example, see: www.parabolic.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_26&products_id=205 .

Also: www.spectrum-skytv.co.uk/index.php?option=categories&category_id=24272 .

(of course, also see ads and links section on this website!).

[spiney]

I've just noticed that Astra 1 channel Das Erste advertises teletext subtitling on some programmes, I think on page 777 (can't remember), goto page 300 and a progs list page is shown.

This being so, it seems possible some other German channels also occasionally show subtitles, unfortunately it means "trawling" through the teletext pages to find out!

(it turns out the German term for subtitles is " untertitel "!

[edd173]

Thank you for these helpful responses, sorry my gratitude is somewhat belated! The Technisat option sounds very logical indeed, dont know why i didnt think of that. As for the subtitling on MTV, yes it is very useful, although Arte broadcasts some subtitled programmes with easier to translate speech, none of your `shizzle ma homie` etc.

When i originally started this thread it was under the assumption that, given the number of channels on Sky that appear to use a common subtitling format (other than good old fashioned teletext) surely the Germans would be one step ahead. Then again, with retrospect, one must also consider that they dont quite have the same close relationship as Sky and the independent English channels on 28.2.

Well i guess i`d better bite the bullet and go shopping, i will keep the thread updated with my findings.

Cheers

Edd