BBC and ITV in Costa Blanca Driving me MAD

[thegadgitman]

I have installed satellite dishes for years and managed to do many motorised systems big and small. BUT I am being driven MAD trying to get BBC and ITV in the costa Blanca in Spain. I had a 1.8m dish and could not even get a signal for Astra 2D, so I purchased a 2.4m dish and still I get no signal for astra 2D. Dish is perfectly aligned and has a clear view to the Sky. I have tried 3 different LNBs and then purchased a new one. I get the usual rubish from the other Astra Satelites e.g. Sky news, Reality etc. However there seems to be NOTHING on the 10GHz signals. I have also connected the dish to a Kaon receiver and tried to tune the transponders in manualy but there is NO SIGNAL on the 2D transponders. I seem to get nothing between 10.714 and 10.936 Ghz.

The Sky box I am using is a Pace DS430N I have changed the default transponder to 12129 and have nearly a full signal on both the signal meters when I set the box up. However when I look at the signal meter after, then there is nothing there. But still get the other channels, nothing on 2D.


WHAT AM I DOING WRONG ? ? ? ? ? ? ?


HELP

[rolfw]

Are you using a feedhorn and C120 LNB?

We have several members on the Costa Blanca, I have moved this post the the appropriate section and they should now pick up on it.

[thegadgitman]

Not using a feedhorn and c120 Lnb at the moment I have a Universal LNB on the dish at the moment. However I was just about to order a Feedhorn and a Invacom SNF031 C120 LNB. Will this make a difference ?

[rolfw]

It should make an enormous difference, what is the make of dish and which feedhorn are you buying?

[snap]

I have a Universal LNB on the dish at the moment.

If the dish is prime focus this will be the problem. Using a LNBF ( all in one ) on a prime focus dish will result in severe signal loss. If you're using a universal C120 LNB (one that bolts onto a feed that came with the dish) then the cause is probably incorrect skew (rotation of the LNB).
Using an Invacom with an adjustable feedhorn should do it. It's a bit late now, and sorry to say it, but the quad ( QDF-031 ) performs better on 2D than the single version you have ordered.

[thegadgitman]

Dish is a fortec 2.4. Havent actually ordered c120 LNB yet. I was just about to. So which is the best ?? Probably placing order with Undergroundsat. They have the C120 LNB and a feedhorn. Feedhorn says KU Band LNB Feed Horn [archkubandho]. They do not do the quad Invacom. Anyone got a good place to get them from ??

[snap]

Buy from Antnet Digital in Brunete, Madrid. They are Invacom's main agent in Spain and will send one, and should be able to supply the adjustable feedhorn you will need. They usually have a large stock of LNB's.
Sorry to hear the dish is a Fortecstar. I have one of these gathering dust in the basement. (it was so bad I couldn't bring myself to even give it away)
Not only are they an absolute pig to set up, when you do get it done the gain is nothing like as good as a good quality 2.4 metre, more like a good 1.2 or 1.5metre offset. The only good thing about them is that they are cheap, but that's for a reason.
Sorry to be so negative, but in a place such as costa Blanca, where the signal is so weak, there's very little alternative to spending money if receiving the BBC is the objective.

[thegadgitman]

Yes I have just been reading more about the Fortec dish, how bad it is to set up. But it litterally took me only 2 hours from the box to fully assembled and working (Not on 2D though). No big problems setting it up for the 1st time assembling one of these dishes. Also I nearly have a full signal meter on my DS430 receiver and my Sat finder is just 1 bar from the top. This is much more than I had from a solid Prime focus 1.8 dish. I am sure my problem now is to do with the LNB. I will order one in the morning if I cannot pick one up here.

I was also thinking, could it not be a problem with the 22khz switching. As I do not get ANY signal at all from 2D as it is in the lower band that relies on the 22khz switch ??

[snap]

Make sure via the installer menu on the Pace that the 22 khz tone is switched on.
Has the default transponder been changed on the Pace? Seems a very high signal quality reading with no 2D present.
Check also you have the focus point right. On this type of dish it is critical, as is skew.

[thegadgitman]

Thanks for all the help.

I have set up a new installation on the Pace box and set default transponder to 12129 and signal strenght is about 90%+ and quality about 85%+. All channels are found on the EPG. However when I go and check the signal strength via the service menu it is ZERO (NOTHING). Also 22Khz is on, if I turn it off I get nothing at all on all channels.

I have had a signal meter on the dish and have set the focal length to exactly what was in the instructions and have addjusted it about 5mm with a signal meter to get the strongest signal.

Still nothing on 2D.

I will go and get a C120 LNB and horn and try again.

I just wanted to exaust all posibilities before I spend out on another LNB.

[iceman]

I have set up a new installation on the Pace box and set default transponder to 12129 and signal strenght is about 90%+ and quality about 85%+. All channels are found on the EPG. However when I go and check the signal strength via the service menu it is ZERO (NOTHING). Also 22Khz is on, if I turn it off I get nothing at all on all channels.

The signal strenght on the service menu is of the default transponder 11778V on 2A North...Can you lock on to this freq on your signal meter?

I dont want to sound pesimistic but as snap has already pointed out,the fortecstar dish is not such a good dish...You say it took you two hours to assemble it,but is the geometry of the dish correct?(when you look from the side do you see the rim of the dish in one straight line?)
Also keep in mind,skew adjustment is crucial on 2D reception in fringe areas...

[thegadgitman]

Ok have tuned to 11778 on my signal meter and get absolutly nothing. Change to 12129 and get 85-87% on signal meter.

Also have checked the dish on assembling and is all OK. Assembled on a flat solid floor and dish "LOOKS" perfeclty symetrical.

[iceman]

Dont know anything about reception in Costa Blanca,down here in Cyprus 2A North is a weaker signal than 2A south where 12129 is...2D is even weaker..
So i suppose you need to improve your signal a lot to even consider getting 2D..

[bignick]

Hi

I agree with snap & Iceman also. This dish is not of the highest quality and you definately need a Invacom/adjustable feed setup - you will probably also need a new LNB clamp as the universals are a different diameter. Please can you post a photo of the existing LNB assy so we can check and make a recommendation.

On the subject of ensuring the dish is assembled correctly I would recommend you use the old fishing line trick. I've a feeling I may be teaching you to suck eggs here but I'll explain for the benifit of others.......

On your dish I recommend you tie 3 lengths of thin fishing line between opposite petals on the dish. If you count the petals like they were a clockface 1-6, then tie midway between petal 1 & 4, 2 & 5, 3 & 6. Use thin Line & make sure they are tied midway between the petals.

All 3 lines will now intersect in the center of the dish. If the dish is perfectly set up then all 3 lines will touch WITHOUT pressing on another line. If this is the case then the dish is as good as its gonna get ('til the new LNB arrives)

If you find that a line is pressing on another then retie so the offending line is on top. You will now find that there is a space between the lines indicating a misshaped reflector assy. For small gaps, say under 1cm or so, then I recommend that you attempt to pull it back into shape. Have yourself and a helper pull back gently on the 2 petals that sit highest. Start with very small pulls and reassess after each try. For large gaps it may be worth reassembling the dish.

I hope that is of some help to you

Cheers

Nick

[thegadgitman]

Thanks for the fishing line test, actually didnt know that one. Have done loads of dishes but this is the 1st petal dish I have done. Have done the test and as I thought the dish is Spot On. All lines meet Perfectly. So I have ordered an Invacom Lnb and will be with me in about 2 hours, so will keep fingers crossed that works. Will post the results.

Thanks everyone.

[bignick]

Thanks for the fishing line test, actually didnt know that one. Have done loads of dishes but this is the 1st petal dish I have done.

Glad to be of help.

This test can be used on all Prime focus dishes, not just the petal types. I suppose it could also be used on Offsets - Anyone know if this is possible?

I recommended 3 lines because it worked well with your 6 petal dish. On Famavals I use 4 because they have 8 petals. You can't have too many lines & the bigger the dish the more you should use!

Good luck with the LNB

Nick

[thegadgitman]

OK THAT DID IT. Got an Invacom and feed and that sorted the problem. What a PIG of a dish to fine tune ! ! ! !

Also "SNAP" did say earlier that the Quad C120 Invacom was better than the single. I did get the single but can change it if I want to.

Is there a larger gain from the Quad Invacom LNB ??

Is it worth me changing for the Quad, as it was over twice the price ??

Just a little more tweeking to do on the dish and all channels will Be A1.

Girlfriend is now happy that I have stopped shouting and throwing tools around the garden, and she can watch corrie and estender for the 1st time in 3yrs.

Once again, thanks to everyone.

[iceman]

Is there a larger gain from the Quad Invacom LNB ??

Is it worth me changing for the Quad, as it was over twice the price ??

The signal difference might not be twice over the single but the quad is definately worth the money if your 2D reception is on the threshold..

[iceman]

This test can be used on all Prime focus dishes, not just the petal types. I suppose it could also be used on Offsets - Anyone know if this is possible?

Yes it is also possible to string large offset dishes but the strings are not placed the same way as on prime focus dishes.

[snap]

Good news..
If you can change the single for a quad, do it. Have a look at my last posting in the \\\\\\\\'LNB comparison tests\\\\\\\\' thread:
If the signal is now at threshold (ie occasional break-up) a quad will lift it up into a safe zone, all other things being equal.

[bignick]

The signal difference might not be twice over the single but the quad is definately worth the money if your 2D reception is on the threshold..

Once again I agree with Iceman & snap....The Quad is worth the money & BTW go for ports 2 or 3 as they work best on Horizontal Lows (assuming that they are the ones to go for in your part of the world)

Cheers

Nick

[bignick]

Yes it is also possible to string large offset dishes but the strings are not placed the same way as on prime focus dishes.

I'm guessing 1 vertical and several horizonal..........am I right?

Nick

[iceman]

I'm guessing 1 vertical and several horizonal..........am I right?

Nick

One horizontal and three verticals,starting at the highest point on top of the dish,stretching down..

[thegadgitman]

Ok, will take your advice and swap LNB tomorrow.
Signal is just on the threashold, occasional breakup, so hope that solves that problem. Will let you know the results and hopefully I will have a working Fortec dish. At least I have the channels now, thats a start, just need the fine tuning now.

One again thanks for all the help.

[iceman]

Ok, will take your advice and swap LNB tomorrow.
Signal is just on the threashold, occasional breakup, so hope that solves that problem.

Swapping single with a quad will deffinately improve the signal for you...
Do not under estimate the importance of skew adjustment on 2D..
If you have a spectrum analyser,fine tune the skew with analyser,result is worth the extra effort