Advice Needed Damaged dish, what should I do?

[Captain Jack]

Well.... if it's new and damaged, I would certainly demand a replacement. If you bought a brand new car, I doubt you'd tolerate a dent on it - no matter how small.

That being said, I don't think that the small dent will cause too much of signal deterioration if you managed to push it back in - maybe 0.5dB, if that? Hard to judge on how bad it is from a picture. A 35cm dent sounds sizeable, though...

Yes, the two motorised dishes I have in use were warped and/or dented and I believe the 1.5m Gibby is more or less acceptable and is in near-new condition. Though pride21 a bit further south of me seems to be getting better results than I am... My Fibo 90cm was quite bad - it is peppered with small dents (think car shopping trolley kinks) and was warped. I straightened it as best I could but the small dents are hard to remove. I don't think it's 100% but I am not grumbling as I paid £18 for it!

Penta 85 is a very good performer and some say that it's better than the TD88 ... BUT it's also slightly larger - almost 1m wide. I installed a very battered one once, which had one corner completely mullered/dented - still performed very well, though how much loss there was over a non-damaged one, I don't know.

 

[PaulR]

Penta 85 ... I installed a very battered one once, which had one corner completely mullered/dented - still performed very well, though how much loss there was over a non-damaged one, I don't know.

Which to my mind just shows how completely superfluous the extended corners on a Penta are. They perform no useful function.

 

[timo_w2s]

No way could I fit a 1m width dish on my balcony. I'm hoping I can just about squeeze the TD88 in where I currently have an 85cm wide dish (79cm active surface)....

There's not really anything to push back on the dish, it's just minor imperfections on the surface making it slightly rippled and less smooth than it should be. They are only visible when you let light reflect off the surface or run your fingers over them. You can see the damage on the back of the dish too so it's not just on the painted surface.

So far my email to the shop has been unanswered...

 

[sonnetpete]

It would be interesting to do a comparison test involving the Penta and a 1M dish. I'm away for a week or so, however if I get time when I return, I'll see what results are like between my Penta and my 1M Gibertini using 5E as a comparison. The Nordic channels are a good test here...

 

[Captain Jack]

Which to my mind just shows how completely superfluous the extended corners on a Penta are. They perform no useful function.

Maybe... perhaps provides better rigidity? My Penta has been located in the windiest of locations (coastal, top floor flats etc.) and it's as straight as it was the day I bought it. It is steel, so maybe stronger than an aluminium would be.

Pete, maybe you can test the side corners theory by covering them up?

My 1m Channel Master wiped the floor with the Penta. The Gibby that I installed for someone else didn't seem to be THAT much better but there will still be an improvement.

There's not really anything to push back on the dish, it's just minor imperfections on the surface making it slightly rippled and less smooth than it should be. They are only visible when you let light reflect off the surface or run your fingers over them. You can see the damage on the back of the dish too so it's not just on the painted surface.

The damage may be minor but still there. Microwave signals will behave pretty much the same as light, when hitting a damaged surface... i.e. the reflected signal/light won't all end up in the same spot - at the LNB. Maybe phone the shop?

 

[sonnetpete]

Pete, maybe you can test the side corners theory by covering them up?

Probably not very scientific but......


Using NRK2 as a benchmark :
without cards : 65%Q 50%S
with cards : 65%Q 48%S

Maybe the cardboard from a HM Sat delivery is somehow conducive to reception.....

Edit : Henri, exhausted from a hour of short tennis, was noticeably unimpressed...

 

[Waveguide]

There is a method used to remove dents on cars called "dent pulling".
It's pretty much fool-proof, you can do it by tiny steps instead of
trying to get every hammer blow exactly correct. Combined with a white
paper with black stripes a few centimeters wide and strong light the
reflection of the stripes from the suface will show any distortions,
even small ones. Hot melt glue, something with a flat surface a few
centimeters wide with something the grip it with on the rear side
and some SISU and "Bob's Your Uncle". (Done my car this way and it's
a good method)

Another method is "massaging" the dents back to shape from the periphery
towards the center with polished tools of round steel. Probably requires
more practise.

Hammers are bad for this, you gets many small dents instead of one big.

 

[timo_w2s]

Result! Being sent a new TD88 dish face tomorrow and I can keep the old one so I can do a comparison.

Question is what do I do with the dented dish face? Bird bath?

 

[Captain Jack]

Point it westwards and see what sats you get there?

 

[Analoguesat]

Result

Bird bath, or a rain shield for an existing dish maybe. Or a nice pergola roof?

 

[timo_w2s]

Point it westwards and see what sats you get there?

It'll just be the face, no brackets or LNB arm.

 

[archive10]

No way could I fit a 1m width dish on my balcony. I'm hoping I can just about squeeze the TD88 in where I currently have an 85cm wide dish (79cm active surface)....

There's not really anything to push back on the dish, it's just minor imperfections on the surface making it slightly rippled and less smooth than it should be. They are only visible when you let light reflect off the surface or run your fingers over them. You can see the damage on the back of the dish too so it's not just on the painted surface.

So far my email to the shop has been unanswered...

I agree with the other posters, you should be in your right to return goods with damages.

BUT, maybe a heretic thought, but ask yourself: Is it worth the bother?
I buy stuff of certain german satellite equipment websites. They sometimes send me the wrong stuff, and once I had them ship me a used LNB. I complain and they usually don't want stuff back, they either give me a discount or just ship me replacements.
But they have really low shipping costs, and very low prices, so this stuff is bargain already.
So sometimes I just live with the downside of not getting Premium stuff all the time...

How much did you pay for it? Does the cost of driving 40km compare to a potential the write-off?

 

[timo_w2s]

I agree with the other posters, you should be in your right to return goods with damages.

BUT, maybe a heretic thought, but ask yourself: Is it worth the bother?
I buy stuff of certain german satellite equipment websites. They sometimes send me the wrong stuff, and once I had them ship me a used LNB. I complain and they usually don't want stuff back, they either give me a discount or just ship me replacements.
But they have really low shipping costs, and very low prices, so this stuff is bargain already.
So sometimes I just live with the downside of not getting Premium stuff all the time...

How much did you pay for it? Does the cost of driving 40km compare to a potential the write-off?

It was €49 + postage (€17). Things are not so cheap here but I agree, wasn't so worried about the costs, just wanted to get a decent dish. Anyway, looks like I'll be getting another for no extra cost.

 

[PaulR]

Let's hope that the slight imperfection isn't a pressing fault from the factory!

Good result though.

 

[timo_w2s]

Let's hope that the slight imperfection isn't a pressing fault from the factory!

Or it gets damaged in the post... One of the reasons I would have been happy to pick it up myself even if it was a bit of a drive.

 

[timo_w2s]

Just picked up my replacement TD88 dish face and it looks OK. Phew. Now just need time to set up the damaged and new ones to see how they perform. Will post results when I've got some.

I'm also going to compare the Black Ultra single, twin and quad on the undamaged dish. Stay tuned.

 

[PaulR]

Now just need time to set up the damaged and new ones to see how they perform. Will post results when I've got some.

I reckon you'll be lucky to see any difference at all.

Still, good that the firm sent a replacement without a quibble. I'd buy from them again judging by the way they dealt with your complaint.

 

[timo_w2s]

I reckon you'll be lucky to see any difference at all.

Still, good that the firm sent a replacement without a quibble. I'd buy from them again judging by the way they dealt with your complaint.

I suspect you are right, will hopefully find out soon...

The place I bought them from seem to have the widest choice of decent sat gear in Finland that I know of (there isn't too much choice here and all of the real shops seem to have dispersed over the past 10 years except a few whole-sellers). They also do a next day delivery service to a courier depot near me so I don't have to wait in for a delivery and just pick up the goods at my inconvenience when the text message arrives.

 

[Huevos]

Hammers are bad for this, you gets many small dents instead of one big.

Never heard of a shrinking hammer (and dolly)? Obviously just banging away with a regular hammer is not going to get the desired effect.

 

[PaulR]

Never heard of a shrinking hammer (and dolly)?

I have.

In a previous life my trade was motor vehicle body repair and spray painting. I had those tools and, frankly, they were only partially successful. They were used to try (emphasis on try) to reduce a large dented area. You'd end up with a very disturbed surface and you then needed to fill the minor imperfections in.

I was taught to lead fill but that was just a faff and most of the trade used polyester filler. The point of all this is that the surface after shrinking was not suitable for painting straight away and neither would a satellite dish be suitable for reflecting radio waves.

On a related subject, however, I once watched one of the paintless dent repairers at work. They will only work on small car park dings that haven't broken the paint and using a variety of small hammers and dollies (some plastic) would gradually persuade the surface back into shape. The aim was to end up with a very small mark that, on first glance, could be mistaken for a paint blemish. Now that technique could certainly work on a satellite dish.