Advice Needed DM7020 not moving motor - time to bin?

[ilpresident]

Hi to all,

It's been a while since I posted anything here. As a matter of fact, it's been a while since I tried anything with my DM7020

The reasons are two: work and sat problems. Problems come in the form of the STB not moving my Stab HH120 rotor at all.

To test, I borrowed an old StarSat with Usals and tried it. Rotor worked ok and quite fast, faster than the DM ever did. I also tuned stations from a number of satellites just to be sure and all was ok.

So I concluded that my DM is at fault. First I tried flashing a new image instead of the Gemini 4.70 and installed a PB-VX and at first I thought that this had solved the problem as it worked between Astra 19.2 and Hotbird 13.0 but when I searched for other satellites, then the motor stopped on the last one searched and was stuck there. So I had to turn it to zero using the StarSat.

Ended up installing an image by OoZoon in flash and an Enigma2 pcd9.0 in USB. The problem still persists.

I then borrowed (borrowing time galore) a Stab HH90 rotor and tried it directly with a short cable with my DM and it didn't even turn a measly degree. With the StartSat the rotor turned without problems.

So now I'm thinking of maybe having a problem either with the tuner or with the PSU. As I'm not ready to throw the towel yet, is there a way of knowing which is the culprit? Can I somehow check the voltages from the PSU? Where can I obtain an original replacement (Matsushita) other than those Chinese ones? Or shall I try to replace all caps from the PSU as suggested in many old threads on the Web?

How to tell if the tuner will be kicking the bucket?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Piltdownpaul]

Certainly worth checking the caps, a common fault with psu's , you know what to look for , the domed ones, or try replacing them all, they are as cheap as chips.

 

[ilpresident]

I have already had a very good look at the caps but none has the tell tale domed top unfortunately. Would they still be under-performing if they're not domed?

 

[Piltdownpaul]

Its possible, although i thought maybe the whole unit wouldnt function either...

 

[A nonymous]

If you used USALS with a DM7020 nine times out of ten it doesn't work. Is it working using DISEqC 1.2 commands?

If you think it could be the PSU i would recommend replacing the caps as the DM7020 is an old receiver now, it is possible that the caps could be failing as previously stated. You should be able to pick up all the caps required on ebay for around £5.

Not sure what temperature rating the current caps are, but if they are 85 degree ones it would be worth swapping them for 105 degree ones if you do replace them. If after replacing the caps its still doing it, either keep it for a bedroom box or just bin it. Replacing the tuner is not an easy job, there are also several tuners that were used on these boxes. If its a Philips tuner the chances of you getting a new one is next to nothing.

Nano

 

[Tururu]

No es un deco bueno para mover motores, suelen dar problemas, comparado con otros.
Normalmente cambiar de imagen suele liar mas el tema.

Para medir las tensiones de salida para la antena, sin abrir el deco puedes poner un satfinder en el cable, normalmente todos tienen medirdor de tension y de tono (22Khz), si quieres algo mas profesional, necesitaras un tester y ver la tension que tienes en el cable, canales verticales 14Voltios, canales Horizontales 18Voltios (+/-).

Puedes hacer una pequeña modificacion, estando en usals, si miras en la configuracion que tienes los satelites como LNB 0, entra dentro de el y marca la casilla incremento de tension, incrementara 1Voltio, tanto en vertical como en horizontal (14V=>15V y 18V=>19V) esta para compensar longitudes altas de cable o cable muy fino/de mala calidad, tendras que reiniciar el sintonizador para que el cambio se active.

No olvides poner 100ma en el detector de movimiento, asi veras cuando el motor se mueve realmente, con menos no marca bien.

Las fuentes originales no suelen dar problemas con condensadores, pero no van bien, si tienes HDD, desconectalo para estas pruebas o al arrancar el tuner, espera unos segundos y lo dejas en standby, luego enciende de nuevo con el mando, el HDD ya se queda en reposo y no consume.

Tengo una DB7020Si desde hace mas de 10 años, los motores y conmutadores de antena (DiSEqC) no le gustan.
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Not a good move for deco engines tend to give problems, compared to others.
Normally change view liar more often the subject.

To measure the output voltages for the antenna without opening the deco may put a SatFinder on cable, normally all have medirdor tension and tone (22Khz), if you want something more professional, you need a tester and see the tension that you have on cable channels 14Voltios vertical channels 18Voltios Horizontal (+/-).

You can make a small modification, being in USALS, if you look at the settings you have satellites as LNB 0, enters into it and marks the increasing tension box, increase 1Voltio, both vertically and horizontally (14V=>15V and 18V=>19V) to offset this high cable lengths or very fine / poor quality cable, the tuner will have to restart for the change to take effect.

Do not forget to 100th in the motion detector, so really when the engine is actually moving, less no brand well.

The original sources do not usually cause problems with capacitors, but do not go well, if you have HDD, disconnect for these tests or to start the tuner, wait a few seconds and leave it on standby, then on again with the remote, the HDD already comes to rest and not consume.

I have a DB7020S i for over 10 years, engines and antenna switches (DiSEqC) does not like.

 

[Captain Jack]

I had a 7020 many years ago and that didn't like moving my dish. It was a longish cable run so I put a separate DiSEqC positioner between the motor and receiver to give it extra power but still use the DM to actually move the dish. Probably some inline power adapter will work just as well.

 

[ilpresident]

Thank you all for your replies. In my haste to post a question I forgot to mention that I had performed the network hack of replacing C5906 and C5907 capacitors with tantalum capacitors of 4.7uF/35V. The original caps were removed completely. I hope that this did not mess other things as well.

@nano
Unfortunately my box has a Philips tuner as it is one of the first versions :-(. For a rainy day project I'll try to obtain the caps and replace them. As for the tuner: I thought its hard to come by as the only one I could find is from a German website and it cost 49euro + another 30euro for shipping!

In the 9 years I've had the box I always used Usals because of the Stab rotor. But I tried to use the "move to satellite" option in motor setup but nothing's different either. So buying the caps is the only option before the bin.

@Tururu
I have used a multimeter with the tuner f-plug connector and found an DC voltage alternating between 18V and 13/14V when
trying to turn the rotor.

I did not quite understand this part "No olvides poner 100ma en el detector de movimiento, asi veras cuando el motor se mueve realmente, con menos no marca bien." Does the "100ma en el detector" mean to enter the all the GPS values in the Usals settings? I'm afraid I understand very little Spanish :-) and Google translator does not really help sometimes...

But I tried to increase the voltage as you suggested but the only option available is to increase by 0.5V. There is no other way. The 0.5V increase did not make any difference.

@Captain Jack
My cable is around 20m and is of very good quality and resistant to the high UV we get here and with the borrowed StarSat box there where no problems.

 

[Captain Jack]

Another option would be to try and obtain a replacement power supply. Have you tried disconnecting the internal hard drive, if you have one?

My cable was also of good quality but I do think there's some inherent fault with the 7020 with regards to moving the dish. I had two 7020s, first one with Philips and second with Alps tuner and both were hesitant. I should mentioned that I hung a very heavy 1.2m Gibby dish on the motor so it's possible it needed some extra oomph to get it going in the first place.

7020's are very good receivers, albeit DVB-S/MPEG-2 only, so a bit long in the tooth these days. I would still try an inline power adapter if all else fails - something like this http://picodigital.com/product-details.php?PID=82

 

[Tururu]

La modificacion para mejorar la red no causa este problema, mejoras la velocidad de la red.
3MB/s ==> 6MB/s (+).

Dejo los pasos para entrar en los menus.
De todas formas, la DB7020Si es problematica con los motores y mas al cambiar de imagen despues, mantengo 2 en funcionamiento, cocina y cuarto de la pequeña (16años), el pequeño (21años) ya tiene una DB800S-HD.

No cambiaria el modulo de alimentacion, el gasto no merece la pena,ya esta amortizada y por desgracia, seguramente no soluciones el problema.
Si tienes algun conocido con otra DB7020Si, podeis probar con su fuente y en 5 minutos sales de dudas.
De la DB7020Si tienes 3 modelos,el Philips no es malo, los Alps son peores.
No necesitas desmontar la fuente, solo el cable blanco de conexion, puesta una encima (invertida) de la otra las puedes conectar.
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The modification to improve the network does not cause this problem, improving the speed of the network.
3MB/s ==> 6MB/s (+).

I leave the steps to enter the menus.
Anyway, the DB7020Si engines is problematic and more to change view then, I keep 2 running, kitchen and small (16years), small (21 years) and has a DB800S-HD.

Not change the feed module, the expense is not worth it, already amortized and unfortunately, probably not the problem solutions.
If you have any other known DB7020Si, you can try their source and in 5 minutes salts doubts.
From DB7020Si have 3 models, the Philips is not bad, the Alps are worse.
No need to remove the source, only the white connection cable, put one on top (inverted) of the other can connect.


X Captain Jack
Es un alimentador de LNB con previo de 15-17dB independiente del sintonizador (banda baja al no tener tono 22Khz), pero no permite mover el motor, en la documentacion y data-sheet indica 117~120VCA (cuidado).
Vale cuando tienes una averia y el sintonizador no alimenta el LNB, que no es el caso.
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LNB is a feeder prior 15-17dB separate tuner (low to no dial tone 22Khz band), but it moves the motor in the documentation and data-sheet indicates 117 ~ 120VAC (warnings).
Well when you have a breakdown and the tuner does not feed the LNB, which is not the case.

Una buena DB800S-HD o algo mejor son muy baratas/A good DB800S-HD or better are very cheap.

Fotos de los menus del sintonizador/Photos tuner menus.

 

[ilpresident]

@Tururu
I tried the settings suggested in the attached pictures with the increase in voltage and the motor input power increase to 100mA. The rotor still does not move. I'll try to call a friend with a 7020S like mine and try his power supply so at least I narrow down the problem. If it is the power supply then I'll try the caps or see if I can source one from the web.

 

[Tururu]

La foto 5.
No es un aumento de potencia para el motor, es un detector de consumo que ajustamos a 100mamps, mientras consuma el motor, el indicaror de "moviendo la antena" esta activo en pantalla.

Con el viejo StarSat, mueve la antena de este a oeste varias veces, algunas veces el motor se queda duro y se para.
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The photo 5.
There is an increase in power for the engine, it is a consumer detector adjusted to 100 mamps, while consuming engine, indicaror of "moving the antenna" is active on the screen.

With the old StarSat, the antenna moves from east to west several times, sometimes the engine runs hard and stops.

Suerte/Luck.

 

[ilpresident]

There is the possibility of obtaining a non-functional box which is a rev K 2007. Will it have an Alps tuner, and if so, will it be compatible with the Philips tuner - as a direct replacement?

 

[A nonymous]

I really don't know. I know the 7020S and 7020Si do have a different mainboard, as for the tuner I have no idea if they are interchangeable.

May be worth asking on IHAD.

Nano

 

[ilpresident]

Will do.

 

[Tururu]

DB7020Si
La alimentacion es compatible 100%.
La placa base (casi), se puede cambiar entera.

Tiene modificaciones la placa base que hace que no se puedan intercambiar a una placa Alps ===> sintonizador Philips.
Yo lo intente y queme una bobina de alimentacion (L210).

De los modelos con sintonizador Alps, tienes 2 modelos, uno la entrada de antena esta arriba, en el otro modelo esta abajo la entrada.
Son las 2 que tengo funcionado Alps, mas una tercera que tengo para piezas Philips que funciona (50%), la quite el sintonizador para hacer el intercambio con otra (sintonizador Alps quemado), pero no funciona.

Esta placa con sintonizador Philips tiene quemado el chip de la red, funciona a 0.1MB/s en una red de 10Mb.
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DB7020Si
The feed is 100% compatible.
The motherboard (almost), you can change whole.

It changes the motherboard which means that it can not swap to a plate Alps ===> Philips tuner.
I try and burn a coil feeding (L210).

Of the Alps tuner models, have 2 models, one antenna input is above you, on the other model is the entry below.
It's 2 I have worked Alps, a third more than I have to spare Philips works (50%), the remove the tuner to exchange with another (tuner burned Alps), but does not work.

This board has burnt Philips tuner chip network runs 0.1MB / s on a 10Mb network.


Una DB7020 de segund mano, 100~130€uros + portes/A DB7020 of second hand 100~130€uros + postage.

Nota/Note.-
Pon un poco de pasta termica en la chapa, que toca el chip de comunicacion I2c del tuner Alps, si no toca bien, se puede quemar.
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Put some thermal paste on the plate, playing the I2c communication chip tuner Alps, but plays well, can burn.

 

[Tururu]

Pon un poco de pasta termica en la chapa, que toca el chip de comunicacion I2c del tuner Alps, si no toca bien, se puede quemar.
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Put some thermal paste on the plate, playing the I2c communication chip tuner Alps, but plays well, can burn.

Unas fotos de una DB7020Si (rev. K 2004) con tuner Alps que repare .
El sintonizador Alps usa la chapa del chasis como disipador, al estar mal montado, no disipa el chip STV0299B y averia por temperatura.
Funcionando OK, sin la tapa metalica, en unos minutos quema, pasa de 50ºC sin disipador, las 2 que tengo, estan con pasta termica para no tener averias.
El mismo chip en el sintonizador Philips trabaja frio, en la foto de arriba no tiene disipador y no lo necesita.
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Some photos of a DB7020Si (rev. K 2004) with tuner Alps to repair.
The Alps tuner uses the chassis as heatsink plate, being poorly assembled, no chip dissipates STV0299B and breakdown by temperature.
Running OK without the metal lid, burning within minutes, turn 50°C without heatsink, 2 that I have, are with thermal paste to avoid breakdowns.
The same chip Philips tuner works in cold, pictured above sink and no you do not.

 

[ilpresident]

@Tururu

If I understood correctly, you can use an Alps tuner from a DM7020Si in a DM7020S but you cannot replace a DM7020Si tuner with one from a DM7020S.

Si he entendido bien , usted puede poner un sintonizador Alps de un DM7020Si en un DM7020S pero no puede reemplazar el sintonizador DM7020Si con alguien que viene de una DM7020S . (translated from Italian is better :-))

 

[Tururu]

No.
Tienes que cambiar toda la placa base, no solo el sintonizador Alps, mejor no intercambiar piezas.

Como comente al principio, normalmente no es un problema del Alps, ni de la fuente de alimentacion, es la DB7020 que no le gustan nada nada los motores de antena.

Tengo DB7020Si desde el 2003, monte unos cuantos motores a los amigos con este sintonizador, todos con el mismo problema, ahora si, ahora no, uno a 400Kms de casa, cansado, al final le puse otro sintonizador para mover el motor y luego ver la TV con la DreamBox7020.

Personalmente lo tenia por su gran memoria, 44 satelites (61ºOeste hasta 57ºEste) y mas de 8000 canales en SD, poder ver canales 4:2:2 o HD (en un tp DVB-S) usando el PC con Videolang y lo facil que es preparar listas personalizadas de canales y/o añadir tp's a mano.
Hace unos años lo cambie por DreamBox800S-HD y fin del problema (tengo 4 funcionando en casa), actualmente merece la pena la mejora, sobre todo por los canales HD, aparte de un Vu+DUO2, con 4tuner Satelite y 2 de Television Digital Terrestre (TDT).
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No.
You have to replace the entire motherboard, not just the tuner Alps, best not to exchange pieces.

As we discuss in the beginning, is not usually a problem Alps, or the power supply, which is the DB7020 does not like anything anything engines antenna.

I DB7020Si since 2003 , mount the engine a few friends with this tuner, all with the same problem, now if not now, one at 400kms from home , tired, at the end I put another tuner to move the engine and then see TV with DreamBox7020 .

Personally I had for his great memory , 44 satellites (61°West to 57°East) and more than 8000 channels in SD, to see 4:2:2 or HD channels (tp in DVB-S) using the PC and how easy it Videolang is to prepare customized lists of channels and/or add tp 's hand .
A few years ago I changed to DreamBox800S -HD and end the problem (I have 4 running at home), currently worth upgrading, especially the HD channels , apart from a Vu+DUO2 with 4tuner cavo and 2 Television Digital terrestrial (TDT) .
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No.
È necessario sostituire l'intera scheda madre, e non solo sulle Alpi tuner , meglio non scambiare pezzi.

Come vedremo in principio , di solito non è un problema Alpi , o l'alimentazione , che è il DB7020 non ama i motori nulla di nulla antenna .

I DB7020Si dal 2003 , montare il motore un paio di amici con questo sintonizzatore , tutti con lo stesso problema , ora, se non ora , uno a 400km da casa , stanco , alla fine ho messo un altro sintonizzatore per spostare il motore e poi vedere TV con DreamBox7020 .

Personalmente ho avuto per la sua grande memoria , di 44 satelliti (61°Est a 57°Est) e più di 8000 canali in SD , per vedere 4:2:2 o canali HD (tp in DVB-S) utilizzando il PC e quanto sia facile Videolang è quello di preparare le liste personalizzate di canali e/o aggiungere la mano di tp .
Qualche anno fa ho cambiato per DreamBox800S-HD e finisco il problema (ho 4 corrente in casa) , oggi vale l'aggiornamento , in particolare i canali HD , oltre a un Vu+DUO2 con 4tuner cavo e 2 Televisione Digitale terrestre (TDT).

PD: Ci scusiamo per le traduzioni.

 

[Terryl]

You don't have a switch of some kind before the motor do you?

And measuring the DC voltage while not under any type of DC load will not tell you much, try it with a 60 ohm 10 watt resistor inline, one end inserted into the LNB input connector the other to ground, this will put a 250 mA load (at 18 volts to the motor) on the power supply to the LNB, (about nominal DC current draw for an H to H motor) if the DC voltage drops more then 8 volts, or goes lower then 12 volts then you have a FUBAR receiver and would need a new one.