Advice Needed Expert help needed. Totally stumped!

[SatSap]

Sorry for long delay.

Another pair of sat installers from the same (last) company have been. Spent over an hour looking through the TV's menus, connecting and testing cables, retuning, etc. They told me that the LNB couldn't be faulty or there'd be more missing channels than there were, and they said the cable was okay and the dish was aligned. Said same thing as the last pair basically...and said that the problem was the Samsung. But this is also what they told me:

All the missing channels are on transponder 11307v. Under the Samsung broadcasting menu you can choose 'channel settings', and the 'satellite', and then 'LNB settings' where you can change the transponder and see the signal strength and also change the lower and upper LNB oscillator settings. They say that the necessary oscillator setting of 2750 MHz isn't available on the drop down list and that is the problem. They said that it was picking up the signal 'on the fringe' and that is why I was getting the channels and then not getting them. I have absolutely no idea whether any of that is real speak or the opposite. I phoned Samsung and they said they'd charge me to send another engineer out as the last one said the TV was in spec. I told them everything that the sat installers told me and that they were saying it was a firmware problem and after the fourth time the chap said he would 'log it' and pass it to the engineers to see if there needs to be an update to fix it or not.

Somehow this seems far, far too complicated to be right. I keep passing the same landmarks as I go round and round the track and at some point I'll just have to do a pit stop and get out. Pitiful whine over.

So either believe all that I've been told by the sat dish installers and Samsung support (that they'll actually do anything) or try and find a solution myself. The only way I can think of to check 100% whether it is the dish or the tv is to either connect the Samsung TV to another freesat dish somewhere else. ...one that receives freesat without issues and/or connect a different brand of freesat tv to my cables. But I really don't know anyone with a stand mount setup and freesat tv. Only one person I know has freesat and his Panasonic tvs are all wall mounted and wires hidden etc so no chance of getting cables out of the tele without a massive upheaval which he wouldn't go for.

My first thought is to forget about freesat altogether, too much agro. But as it really bugs me not knowing what the problem actually is I can't. And my wife keeps looking at me as if it's my fault for buying the wretched TV...

What's clear and obvious is that it's a Samsung issue or a satellite dish problem and I now have to discover which one it is somehow.

--edit

Aha. I have just contacted a friend who has freesat coming into his house into a dual tuner freeat PVR! I'm going to take the TV over to his place and connect it to his dish. I'll know 100% then! Shall report back.

 

[Lazarus]

Sounds like you are being given a right royal run-around.

The stuff about the Local Oscillator is garbage.

The required LO for 11307 MHz is 9750 MHz and this is achieved in what should be the default setting of "Universal" which automatically sets the LO at 9750 MHz for the lower half of the Satellite Band and to 10600 for the upper half.


There is nothing intrinsically wrong with Freesat. But many of us prefer to use external Freesat boxes, not Integrated TVs .................. Too much to go wrong having it all in one box.

You could reject the TV as being of unsatisfactory quality and then get a similar non-integrated TV and a separate Freesat PVR.

 

[Tony1A]

Episode 20: The saga continues. I love the way they all pass the buck. Samsung blames the dish installer - dish installer blames Samsung and the PBC (poor bloody customer) is stuck in the middle. When I first had Sky Digital installed I thought everything was OK - until the engineer tested the LNB and it was duff! In fact, it had a letter F written on it in big black marker pen. Dish installers???? Oh I could tell a few tales about them!

 

[Captain Jack]

Amazing how many cowboys there are... I dare say a satellite TV enthusiast will know a lot more about the subject than certain so-called installers. Many don't even seem to know the basics.

I've met some REAL installers and they certainly know their shizzle, but how do you differentiate one from the other without prior knowledge of the subject?

 

[Lazarus]

Well said, CJ: As we used to say in the RN, "Bull**it baffles brains"!!

 

[sonnetpete]

I'd still suspect a slight dish misalignment. The installers probably use a strong transponder to align the dish, instead of 11307 which is causing you problems. The LNB skew needs adjusting using that transponder too...I take it they were reluctant to go back up on the roof?

If there is still an impasse, can you not fix up a meeting between the dish installers and the Samsung engineer? Hopefully your comparison test using your friends set up will be conclusive......

 

[Tony1A]

I'm with you on this one Pete! I'm sure all will be revealed when that baby gets hooked up to his friends dish - then we will ALL know the truth. Just for info, when I set up my TD78 on Sky, the alignment led me a merry dance as it was pulling the very strong Astra signals, but Eurobird was out by a fraction!

 

[SatSap]

Hi again., and thanks for all your replies and suggestions. It's really spurred me on to find a solution.

Well, I can say definitively that it has to be the dish installation and NOT the Samsung TV! I connected both sides of the shotgun cable going into my friends freesat PVR to my Samsung TV and switched it on. Low and behold All the channels are immediately available. I left the tv on for a good while we had a coffee etc. and then switched the TV off and back on and the signal was constant for the channels that were missing...46 and 47 percent for both signal strength and quality. No bit errors. And 80% ish strength and 100% quality on HD channels as well etc. No issues whatsover. I then reset and retuned freesat and checked and no problems.

Whilst I'm extremely glad I know that it isn't the tv, it is incredibly disheartening to realise that I've been given a load of flamin' balderdash by two different companies and from two lots of installers from the last company as well. As Tony1A says, I've been pretty much stuck in the middle and dependent on their knowledge to sort the problem. Anyway, I phoned the sat installers from the location I'd taken the tv to, and told them I was looking at my Samsung TV connected to another dish 8 miles away and all the channels were visible. Told them I hadn't changed anything from when their people had left it, just connected the sat cables. So, they are going to send someone else out on Wednesday morning. More of my precious time wasted. I just hope they sort it out this time. I've had a gutsful of this.

Also, decided to contact the original installers and ask them for some of my money back - for the installation part of the price. I don't think that's unfair. Better than just sitting back and taking it. Maddening.

 

[Tony1A]

SatSap! I'm so happy for you that it is not the TV at fault. I think your dish is not lined up properly or you have a defective LNB. Back in the Summertime I had a brand new LNB I was setting up on a TD64 and the signal levels were all over the place and then going to nothing. Changed it for a spare Lemon dual output I had and all was well. It IS possible to get a bad/defective LNB and if any installer tells you otherwise, they are spouting so much manure that it could be spread on a field. I got so sick of bad installers I decided to the jobs myself!!!!!

 

[Analoguesat]

Blimey what a runaround.

There are some right poor installers out there who will spout any old garbage.

Many years ago I installed our Sky dish using an ex analogue circular dish and a modern lnb. Anyway a cowboy came to fix Sky up next door.

My other half happened to be in and drinking a cup of tea in the garden as it was a nice afternoon. the conversation went something like this:

Want Sky love?

Already got it thanks

Nah cant have - wrong dish

Im telling you we already have it

Impossible - I'll fit it cheap for you.


So other half points through the window and says ok whats that then where Planet Rock was clearly playing merrily on the telly.


Installer goes errr, ohh and sidles off back to where his horse is tethered up.

 

[Analoguesat]

Oh and having seen the mess the cowboy made of next doors window frames we both vowed no Sky ladder monkey would ever do any of our installation work ever.

 

[Tony1A]

Great stories! Wrong dish? Oh, that's a good one.

 

[Lazarus]

Made I larf.

Sad really, as it isn't a laughing matter knowing the truth of what goes on at the John Wayne end of the market.

 

[SatSap]

Hello again.

This is just a courtesy update as you been so supportive and I'd like you to know what's going on...as the saga hasn't ended.

I phoned the original installer of the dish the other day and told him I wasn't happy as after being told my TV was the problem it proved to be incorrect as my Samsung TV worked perfectly at my friends house. Explained that I'd simply driven over to his house and connected it up to his dish and all channels appeared instantly. No retune. He replied, "can you get your friend to connect his Panasonic TV to your dish?" I said (very frustrated by then) that I didn't understand, as I'd proved that my TV worked fine on a separate dish so no point bringing another tv over. He said "Panasonics always work with freesat that's why". Can't get around that logic. Almost like he's unwilling to let go of the idea that it's nothing they've done. I told him I'd had the dish moved by another company as they wouldn't come out and sort it without charging me again, and I told him the name of the company when he asked....and he then offered to give me the money I'd paid out for having it moved. He told me to cancel the other installers and then he'd sort it....but he said he didn't know what it was so he'd have to ask another bloke and get back to me in a couple of days. I didn't cancel the other installers!

After rearranging everything and waiting in all morning for the second company (the ones that moved the dish to the chimney) they phoned me on my mobile near midday instead of turning up as arranged. The chap that moved the dish to the chimney then told me as it wasn't their equipment they wouldn't come out again without charging me. They said they moved the dish to the chimney as I'd asked and installed it correctly and so it must be the TV or the dish/lnb, which wasn't anything to do with them. He said if I wanted to replace the LNB it would cost another £54 + VAT. Told me to take it up with the installers that supplied the equipment. Whole morning wasted...cheers!

So, I'm going to phone the original installers again later and give them until the end of the week to fix it. If they don't I'm going to take measures to get my money back...and I will pursue it until I do get it back now as I'm very, very p*****d off. As for getting the dish sorted? At the moment I feel like it's not worth the risk trying to find a genuine, competent installer amongst the many people claiming to be able to install l dishes out there. The second company I went to seemed very professional. They have a team of people, freephone number, all branded vans, and they are very polite and courteous when in your home...but what good is that if they can't tell me what the problem is? For crying out loud, it's a cable from one room to an LNB on a dish that looks at a satellite is it not? If that was my business and I couldn't work it out I'd give it up and do something else. TV is fine. There are only three things left to look at: cable, LNB, and alignment. It has to be one of them.

Sorry for long post again. I'll only update this again if I manage to get it fixed.

 

[timo_w2s]

Thanks for the update and good luck getting it sorted. If only you where a little closer to me I'd have offered to take a look or lend you a known working LNB!

 

[mariust5]

I have sorted out countless jobs where the customer had the Sky , CAI , Freephone , you name it flashy business ... and i'm just the bloke down the road ...
I feel sorry for you man , i wish i lived near you so can have a look and give you a definite answer on what's going on ... i'm sure there are competent people where you live ... finding them it's a problem .

 

[sonnetpete]

Well, your original installers logic is definitely flawed as it's you tv working on your friends dish...not his tv working on your dish.

Sadly, it may be that the only way you will get it sorted is by getting a competent engineer. We do have an 'installer wanted' section on the forum and I'm sure one of the members here could help...

 

[A nonymous]

Its always been the case, you will always get installers with a "That will do " attitude. I used to work with a lot of them myself, and they used to wind me up as i was always left with the service calls to rectify the problem that came up because of the crap alignment

Its not fun having to realign a dish at the top of a set of Triple 18 rung ladders, usually around the 4th floor level. Its easy to stick a dish up so it will receive stuff to what they may class an acceptable level, but when its feeding say 100 properties it needs to be aligned up as best as it can be.

As for Sky installs , i have lost count of how many dishes i have rectified due to poor installation. It always makes me laugh to watch them putting a dish up at about 9ft high on a ladder wearing full fall arrest equipment knowing they would probably hit the floor before it stopped them

Instead of paying for training which common sense will always outweigh why don't Sky and these other dodgy companies train their so called engineers to actually install a dish properly. Its hardly rocket science is it.

Nano

 

[PaulR]

I go back to my post wondering about the cable quality, how it altered when the dish was moved and the skew of the LNB.

 

[Lazarus]

I'm astride the same Horse, Paul