Signal problem re UK tv in South of France - Dec 2013

[JudithP]

Re all the discussions above from last December, it is now 19 May 2014, I am still in La Seyne sur Mer and have now completely lost all UK tv channels. I had last successful recordings on 5 May, since then nothing works. My friends in Cagnes sur mer have also lost all their UK tv. The local tv man is coming to see me tomorrow to discuss a larger dish but I am dreading the expense and finding a suitable place for one. Any suggestions/advice would be very welcomed - I don't want to find that a bigger dish would still not pick up a signal.

 

[Analoguesat]

Hi Judith, welcome back - sorry its not with good news.

If the encrypted channels are missing too then that suggests a different problem.

 

[PaulR]

If AS's supposition is correct then you do have a separate problem but, having said that, 1m is not large enough for the BBC, ITV, etc channels for you now. Up near Orange I find that an 85cm dish isn't sufficient for viewing in anything worse than light rain. I thought of a 90cm or 95cm dish but in the end have taken a 1m dish down to fit. So I reckon you need to be thinking of a 1.5m now.

If your satellite man can check the signal strengths of the spot beam channels on a 1.2m, a 1.5m and a 1.8m dish then you'll know for sure.

 

[JudithP]

Hi Judith, welcome back - sorry its not with good news.

If the encrypted channels are missing too then that suggests a different problem.

Thank you for replying. What are the 'encrypted channels' please?

 

[JudithP]

If AS's supposition is correct then you do have a separate problem but, having said that, 1m is not large enough for the BBC, ITV, etc channels for you now. Up near Orange I find that an 85cm dish isn't sufficient for viewing in anything worse than light rain. I thought of a 90cm or 95cm dish but in the end have taken a 1m dish down to fit. So I reckon you need to be thinking of a 1.5m now.

If your satellite man can check the signal strengths of the spot beam channels on a 1.2m, a 1.5m and a 1.8m dish then you'll know for sure.

Thank you also for replying and for the good advice re the tv man's visit tomorrow.

 

[Analoguesat]

The pay channels.

Lets go back to first principles and clarify this . Have you lost ALL UK channels, including the free religious & shopping ones? If so thats one problem

Or just the BBC/ITV/C4/C5 families of channels, which are just a small subset of the "UK tv channels"

 

[rolfw]

If your satellite man can check the signal strengths of the spot beam channels on a 1.2m, a 1.5m and a 1.8m dish then you'll know for sure.

Can't realistically see that happening Paul, I'd be very surprised if he'd have a 1.5 or 1.8m in stock, let alone in the van. Plus of course he won't carry out the experimentation for free. However, if he's a Brit, he may have already experimented at home.

 

[PaulR]

I wouldn't have expected him to do it for nothing. And whilst he's unlikely to have a spare 1.8m dish hanging around he might just have one or both of the other two available.

You can only ask...

 

[JudithP]

I wouldn't have expected him to do it for nothing. And whilst he's unlikely to have a spare 1.8m dish hanging around he might just have one or both of the other two available.

You can only ask...

Not quite sure how this works but to reply to the kind people who have replied to my original post, just to let you know the very nice local satellite man came today, (he installed my 1.10m dish last year which I brought with me from UK). However, on checking the tv this morning before he came, I find the missing channels are BACK! This has happened before, but did not loose them all like I did since 5 May. He said the signal is obviously coming and going and to be really sure of receiving UK tv I need to install a 1.20m dish which would have to go on the front wall of my house and would look horrible. He is going to send me an estimate for a new dish and for the installation - I think it will be expensive and as I am living on my UK pension with limited savings I think I am going to have to catch UK tv as when it is there and live without it when it disappears or watch it on the internet. As my son said 'after all Mum you wanted to live in the South of France'!!!!!! And I do and I love it, so tv cannot rule my life any more!!!

 

[rolfw]

I wouldn't have expected him to do it for nothing. And whilst he's unlikely to have a spare 1.8m dish hanging around he might just have one or both of the other two available.

You can only ask...

Yes, but they're not hobbyists Paul, they're a business and their time is not free, I know what I'd say if someone asked me to come around and experiment without a definite payday.

@ Judith, it would be unlikely that without an obstruction or other dish problems, you would lose all of your channels, as a lot of them should be of reasonable strength where you are for your current dish. Did the installer check the line of sight of the dish and perhaps this may be why he wants to move the dish. The difference between a 1m dish which is losing all channels and a 1.2m is not that great to ensure loss free viewing.

 

[bonnecoste]

Not quite sure how this works but to reply to the kind people who have replied to my original post, just to let you know the very nice local satellite man came today, (he installed my 1.10m dish last year which I brought with me from UK). However, on checking the tv this morning before he came, I find the missing channels are BACK! This has happened before, but did not loose them all like I did since 5 May. He said the signal is obviously coming and going and to be really sure of receiving UK tv I need to install a 1.20m dish which would have to go on the front wall of my house and would look horrible. He is going to send me an estimate for a new dish and for the installation - I think it will be expensive and as I am living on my UK pension with limited savings I think I am going to have to catch UK tv as when it is there and live without it when it disappears or watch it on the internet. As my son said 'after all Mum you wanted to live in the South of France'!!!!!! And I do and I love it, so tv cannot rule my life any more!!!

Judith, I have 2 suggestions: Ask your installer if he aligned your dish, and adjusted the LNB skew & focus to maximise the "C/N ratio" ,which can only be measured using a professional meter.If yes then ask what measurement he obtained, if not get him to do that,if he doesn't know what C/N ratio is you need to find an installer who does ! The C/N measurement should be maximised and a figure of 13 dB (decibels)(on a sunny day) should give virtually 100% protection against the effects of heavy rain and other atmospheric disturbances. If the measurement is closer to 6 or 7 dB then you will suffer picture breakup/picture loss as soon as it rains. 10-12dB would give you reasonable protection. If he has done this work correctly but been unable to achieve the required result then my second suggestion concerns the LNB.I have no idea what LNB you have but can highly recommend a new type which has a different design previously only used on professional LNBs but costs no more than other conventional LNBs.This made by Octagon, a German company and is available as single, twin, quad, octo versions, I have tested the Octagon Optima PLL model OOLO which has 8 outputs and compared it with 2 other good quality LNBs and the result was equivalent to increasing the dish size by a considerable amount,perhaps 2 sizes. Some people ,some installers might say "all LNBs are the same" but this one is not...It gives an improvement by reducing the amount of a certain kind of noie (phase noise) which is added to the signal and this is particularly effective when signal levels are low, and for HD channels which are the most difficult to receive.....Ask your installer if he knows of these LNBs or has any,Otherwise they can only be obtained from suppliers in Germany or UK as far as I can tell.Mine was from a German supplier on e-bay and there are quite a few.... I attach a picture of a prof meter showing C/N measurement of 17dB with the Octagon LNB ..With another, conventional, LNB the maximum reading was 13dB...4dB is a MASSIVE improvement! Hope this is of some help

 

[JudithP]

Yes, but they're not hobbyists Paul, they're a business and their time is not free, I know what I'd say if someone asked me to come around and experiment without a definite payday.

@ Judith, it would be unlikely that without an obstruction or other dish problems, you would lose all of your channels, as a lot of them should be of reasonable strength where you are for your current dish. Did the installer check the line of sight of the dish and perhaps this may be why he wants to move the dish. The difference between a 1m dish which is losing all channels and a 1.2m is not that great to ensure loss free viewing.

Thanks for your message. When I say I lost all my channels, I meant the regular UK channels: all the BBCs; all the 4 channels; all the 5 channels; all ITV; ITV2. I still had CBS channels, BET, Horror, True, etc, but did not check them all as I never look that far down. The installer did check the signals with his machine and said it was intermittant if I understood correctly - he said I need the 1.20 dish which is too big to put on the roof, so the 1.10m dish which is attached to my chimney would have to go. I would like to get a big dish and watch tv to my hearts content, but it is all proving too expensive and having a great big dish on the front of my house is not what I want, so have to give up at the moment! I have found internet sites where I can catch up with the series I love: Good Wife, Scandal, Revenge!!! I will just have to watch things on internet rather than being able to record which I normally do. Thanks for all your kind advice.

 

[JudithP]

Judith, I have 2 suggestions: Ask your installer if he aligned your dish, and adjusted the LNB skew & focus to maximise the "C/N ratio" ,which can only be measured using a professional meter.If yes then ask what measurement he obtained, if not get him to do that,if he doesn't know what C/N ratio is you need to find an installer who does ! The C/N measurement should be maximised and a figure of 13 dB (decibels)(on a sunny day) should give virtually 100% protection against the effects of heavy rain and other atmospheric disturbances. If the measurement is closer to 6 or 7 dB then you will suffer picture breakup/picture loss as soon as it rains. 10-12dB would give you reasonable protection. If he has done this work correctly but been unable to achieve the required result then my second suggestion concerns the LNB.I have no idea what LNB you have but can highly recommend a new type which has a different design previously only used on professional LNBs but costs no more than other conventional LNBs.This made by Octagon, a German company and is available as single, twin, quad, octo versions, I have tested the Octagon Optima PLL model OOLO which has 8 outputs and compared it with 2 other good quality LNBs and the result was equivalent to increasing the dish size by a considerable amount,perhaps 2 sizes. Some people ,some installers might say "all LNBs are the same" but this one is not...It gives an improvement by reducing the amount of a certain kind of noie (phase noise) which is added to the signal and this is particularly effective when signal levels are low, and for HD channels which are the most difficult to receive.....Ask your installer if he knows of these LNBs or has any,Otherwise they can only be obtained from suppliers in Germany or UK as far as I can tell.Mine was from a German supplier on e-bay and there are quite a few.... I attach a picture of a prof meter showing C/N measurement of 17dB with the Octagon LNB ..With another, conventional, LNB the maximum reading was 13dB...4dB is a MASSIVE improvement! Hope this is of some help

This is very interesting. I will try to translate all this for my french installer who fortunately is young and seems to be very up to date on all this stuff, and he understands a lot of english technical terms so this will make sense to him. Thank you very much. I will let you know the outcome.

 

[Steve Steve]

I totally agree with Bonnecoste...........For what is worth.....I can also very highly recommend the Octagon LNB.....also... it can be found rebadged as "Opticum Premium " but both brands are identical ......Though avoid the Single version ..as it don't perform as well as the Twin ,Quad and Octo versions.....
http://www.redcoon.fr/B316011-Opticum-Quad-LNB-LQP-04H_LNB-quadruples

 

[JudithP]

I totally agree with Bonnecoste...........For what is worth.....I can also very highly recommend the Octagon LNB.....also... it can be found rebadged as "Opticum Premium " but both brands are identical ......Though avoid the Single version ..as it don't perform as well as the Twin ,Quad and Octo versions.....
http://www.redcoon.fr/B316011-Opticum-Quad-LNB-LQP-04H_LNB-quadruples

Thanks Steve Steve. I have just spoken to the UK supplier who I bought my original dish from as he has always been very helpful. He sells these LNBs for £16.99 - his website is: http://www.redappledigital.co.uk/Octagon-Optima-Slimline-Twin-0-1dB-LNB-p/octots.htm. For that price it is well worth trying and I am going to buy one immediately. I will post about the results. Thanks again so much to all for the kind interest and advice.

 

[Lazarus]

Thanks Steve Steve. I have just spoken to the UK supplier who I bought my original dish from as he has always been very helpful. He sells these LNBs for £16.99 - his website is: http://www.redappledigital.co.uk/Octagon-Optima-Slimline-Twin-0-1dB-LNB-p/octots.htm. For that price it is well worth trying and I am going to buy one immediately. I will post about the results. Thanks again so much to all for the kind interest and advice.

Ah, yes, Red Apple are one of our Forum Sponsors

 

[Steve Steve]

Judith .... Iv'e never tested that slim version.......this the one I was thinking of........http://www.redappledigital.co.uk/Octagon-Optima-Twin-0-1dB-LNB-p/octot.htm

Or the Quad version ...http://www.redappledigital.co.uk/Octagon-Optima-Quad-0-1dB-LNB-p/octoq.htm

 

[sonnetpete]

The one that Judith has ordered is the same model (with PLL) that I comparison tested in this thread :

http://www.satellites.co.uk/forums/threads/black-ultra-or-octagon-a-comparison.158439/

 

[Steve Steve]

Sonnetpete....Another test..!!....great stuff.....Ive not seen that thread before ......the Octagon slim LNB ...looks like a good performing one...so nothing to worry about ...if .."Judith" ...has already ordered.....

 

[PaulR]

There are different Octagon/Opticum models available and they may not be equal. It's possibly the same situation where the Inverto Black Pro does not perform the same as the Inverto Black Ultra.