Sky's reponse to FTA cards.

21-08-2003

We are writing to advise you of changes affecting digital satellite customers who do not subscribe to sky digital and to set out the steps to be taken to ensure that customers are made aware of the situation.

As the BBC's channels are no longer encrypted, the BBC is no longer contributing to the cost of supplying these viewing cards. The other broadcasters of encrypted free-to-air channels (ITV, Channel 4 and Five) do not wish to fund viewing cards to enable the viewing of their channels to consumers who do not wish to subscribe to pay-TV. Thereefore viewing cards are no longer available to non-pay-TV.

Existing as well as new, digital satellite viewers will be affected because Sky is currently in the process of a viewing card swap-out, which is necessary to ensure the security of the system.

1. BREACH OF FREE MINIDISH AND DIGIBOX TERMS:

As you know, it is a standard term of the free minidish and digibox offer and the interactive discount contract that a viewing card must be kept in the digibox for at least 12 months.

If a customer is not subscribing to a pay-Tv service, they will not be able to obtain a viewing card and this requirement will be waived. However, if in the next 12 months they obtain a viewing card for their digibox or it becomes possible to obtain one without subscribing to a pay-TV service, the requirement to keep the viewing card in the box for the remainder of the 12 month period will apply from that point.

All new customers and existing customers querying this point should be informed of this.

2. FEWER FREE TO AIR CHANNELS.

Encrypted channels cannot be accessed through a set top box without a viewing card This currently affects reception of ITV1, Channel a and Five. New customers not wishing to subscribe to sky digital must be advised that these channels are not currently accessible to non-pay TV subscribers, although they will still be able to access these channels if they have an analogue aerial fitted.

We are concerned that consumers may choose to subscibe to sky digital simply to obtain a viewing card thinking they can cancel their subscription once they have received the card. However if the customers breaks the 12 month minimum term of the sky digital subscription they will be liable to pay the difference between the price they paid for standard installation and £120. Sky has also the right to charge for the remainder of the minimum term based on(the cheapest package price). It is therefor imperative at this time to make clear that the minimum period for subscribing to sky digital is 12 months.

**rolfw** · 21-08-2003

Is it me Net1, or does the following paragraph not make very much sense?

As you know, it is a standard term of the free minidish and digibox offer and the interactive discount contract that a viewing card must be kept in the digibox for at least 12 months.

If a customer is not subscribing to a pay-Tv service, they will not be able to obtain a viewing card and this requirement will be waived. However, if in the next 12 months they obtain a viewing card for their digibox or it becomes possible to obtain one without subscribing to a pay-TV service, the requirement to keep the viewing card in the box for the remainder of the 12 month period will apply from that point.

21-08-2003

@ Rolf.
I think that they are saying yes you can use a box for the few FTA channels without the telephone line being connected or without subscribing to Sky.But should you decide to subscribe to Sky then you must pay for the minimum contract.
I think you have to read between the lines to understand what they are trying to say.
LOL
Net1

Ps terms and conditions p.18 of contract.

**rolfw** · 21-08-2003

Hmm, I think I understand what they are trying to say, just can't equate it to what they have written.

Reminds me of my mate's old maxim-

I know you believe you understand what you think you heard me say.

But I'm not sure whether you realise, that what you think you heard me say, was not what I actually meant.

tellstar · 22-08-2003

Originally Posted by net1

We are writing to advise you of changes affecting digital satellite customers who do not subscribe to sky digital and to set out the steps to be taken to ensure that customers are made aware of the situation.

As the BBC's channels are no longer encrypted, the BBC is no longer contributing to the cost of supplying these viewing cards. The other broadcasters of encrypted free-to-air channels (ITV, Channel 4 and Five) do not wish to fund viewing cards to enable the viewing of their channels to consumers who do not wish to subscribe to pay-TV. Thereefore viewing cards are no longer available to non-pay-TV.

Existing as well as new, digital satellite viewers will be affected because Sky is currently in the process of a viewing card swap-out, which is necessary to ensure the security of the system.

1. BREACH OF FREE MINIDISH AND DIGIBOX TERMS:

As you know, it is a standard term of the free minidish and digibox offer and the interactive discount contract that a viewing card must be kept in the digibox for at least 12 months.

If a customer is not subscribing to a pay-Tv service, they will not be able to obtain a viewing card and this requirement will be waived. However, if in the next 12 months they obtain a viewing card for their digibox or it becomes possible to obtain one without subscribing to a pay-TV service, the requirement to keep the viewing card in the box for the remainder of the 12 month period will apply from that point.

All new customers and existing customers querying this point should be informed of this.

2. FEWER FREE TO AIR CHANNELS.

Encrypted channels cannot be accessed through a set top box without a viewing card This currently affects reception of ITV1, Channel a and Five. New customers not wishing to subscribe to sky digital must be advised that these channels are not currently accessible to non-pay TV subscribers, although they will still be able to access these channels if they have an analogue aerial fitted.

We are concerned that consumers may choose to subscibe to sky digital simply to obtain a viewing card thinking they can cancel their subscription once they have received the card. However if the customers breaks the 12 month minimum term of the sky digital subscription they will be liable to pay the difference between the price they paid for standard installation and £120. Sky has also the right to charge for the remainder of the minimum term based on(the cheapest package price). It is therefor imperative at this time to make clear that the minimum period for subscribing to sky digital is 12 months.

sorry
Sorry but sky are changing the cards so sky should pay for the fta card..
Like many people in the uk satellite is the only way to recive channel 5 and get a fair picture of the other 4 channels.....
These channels are free to air ie payed for though adds etc. so why do we have to pay sky to watch them ????????
There are the ones who are taking them away from us NOT the bbc or itv THEY ARE......
How much more money do they think they can flease the punter for don't they get enought money from there endless repeats and never ending adds ??????
I don't know about you but 90% of the programs that are put on the satellite I know the ending from the beginning of the program,,, or is it that I turn on at the same time the same program is on ( I think not )
How many times have you seen those yellow people do the same things.
Or boldly go to the same place's time and time again.
I think that the only reason for so many channels is for somethink to do with the telly.... by the time you've spent looking for somthink to watch
it's bedtime and your thumb hurts????
That will do I fill a bit better now......

**rolfw** · 22-08-2003

Originally Posted by tellstar

Sorry but sky are changing the cards so sky should pay for the fta card..
Like many people in the uk satellite is the only way to recive channel 5 and get a fair picture of the other 4 channels.....
These channels are free to air ie payed for though adds etc. so why do we have to pay sky to watch them ????????
There are the ones who are taking them away from us NOT the bbc or itv THEY ARE......

Unfortunatley Tellstar, you cannot blame a commercial TV company for trying to protect their encrypted viewing, in Sky's case, this was almost certainly one of the reasons for issuing new cards.

If the BBC had not stopped using encryption, everyone would have received new cards and everyone would have been happy. Well, everyone except the BBC directors and possibly the general licence payer who would have had to foot the bill.

Perhaps you should be targetting your ire at the three commercial channels involved, the ones who have hitched a free ride for the past few years.

Channel five for instance, have always been encrypted (soft encrypted on analogue) and it was only when the BBC joined the Digital platform with their FTV card scheme that they became more widely viewable. It was also always known, that "5" wasn't going to be available to the whole of the UK due to a lack of gaps in the spectrum, in fact I find it strange how the channel has suddenly become everybody's "must have" instead of a "not worth watching", perhaps maybe to add weight to an argument?

ITV was forced onto the digital platform by market research which suggested that digital satellite viewers were unprepared to press the extra button to switch across to terrestrial to view it. I would guess that they have done their research and established that their loss in UK viewers is minimal, so do not need to look at paying for a scheme.

Channel 4 sems quite happy with the situation and of course has its Film 4 business which is subscription only anyway.

I have not heard one hopeful comment from any of the commercial channels reference a resolution of this situation, so why would Sky pay for it, when the main commercial beneficiaries of a new card scheme, appear disinterested?

The other point that to me is important, is that the number of digital viewers actually in the UK, who have no other way of receiving the main four channels, is quite small compared to the number of FTV cards which would have had to be replaced. The BBC, rightly so, probably looked at the forthcoming cost of replacing a million cards for expatriate viewers and I'm sure that this was a huge contributory factor for their move to FTA.

starword · 22-08-2003

Originally Posted by net1

We are writing to advise you of changes affecting digital satellite customers who do not subscribe to sky digital and to set out the steps to be taken to ensure that customers are made aware of the situation.

As the BBC's channels are no longer encrypted, the BBC is no longer contributing to the cost of supplying these viewing cards. The other broadcasters of encrypted free-to-air channels (ITV, Channel 4 and Five) do not wish to fund viewing cards to enable the viewing of their channels to consumers who do not wish to subscribe to pay-TV. Thereefore viewing cards are no longer available to non-pay-TV.

Existing as well as new, digital satellite viewers will be affected because Sky is currently in the process of a viewing card swap-out, which is necessary to ensure the security of the system.

1. BREACH OF FREE MINIDISH AND DIGIBOX TERMS:

As you know, it is a standard term of the free minidish and digibox offer and the interactive discount contract that a viewing card must be kept in the digibox for at least 12 months.

If a customer is not subscribing to a pay-Tv service, they will not be able to obtain a viewing card and this requirement will be waived. However, if in the next 12 months they obtain a viewing card for their digibox or it becomes possible to obtain one without subscribing to a pay-TV service, the requirement to keep the viewing card in the box for the remainder of the 12 month period will apply from that point.

All new customers and existing customers querying this point should be informed of this.

2. FEWER FREE TO AIR CHANNELS.

Encrypted channels cannot be accessed through a set top box without a viewing card This currently affects reception of ITV1, Channel a and Five. New customers not wishing to subscribe to sky digital must be advised that these channels are not currently accessible to non-pay TV subscribers, although they will still be able to access these channels if they have an analogue aerial fitted.

We are concerned that consumers may choose to subscibe to sky digital simply to obtain a viewing card thinking they can cancel their subscription once they have received the card. However if the customers breaks the 12 month minimum term of the sky digital subscription they will be liable to pay the difference between the price they paid for standard installation and £120. Sky has also the right to charge for the remainder of the minimum term based on(the cheapest package price). It is therefor imperative at this time to make clear that the minimum period for subscribing to sky digital is 12 months.

Does this mean that existing SKY customers (those who have had cards for longer than twelve months) can now unsubscribe from the SKY package, but keep their cards and therefore view the encrypted FTV channels (ITV1 etc.)

tellstar · 23-08-2003

Cards
MMMM!!!! rolfw
yes I can see that sky like to make lot's of money, so much so that they had to spend over £700,000,000 or so a while ago, you must rember, something about tax's? the year they tryed to buy Man U and brought Sat 1. and before I go on yes I do buy channels off of sky. I have two box's so that the family can watch more than just one channel at a time.
one for sat and one for terrestrial. I would like you also to be aware that all the fta channels have to pay to go on to skys listings,,,, as you are also aware there are other channels which the box's can recive from the same satellite not on the listings.
Yes channel five was encrypted as you say soft encrypted
no card required... that was done to protect the uk actors ( another kettel of fish ) as as why the bbc have reduced the size of there footprint.
belive it or not the bbc are saving the licence payers money by not paying for the encryption.
As for the itv channels they are sponsored by adds, so I don't think the licence payer will foot the bill. who else uses adds for sponsorship, oh yes sky, but unlike itv they don't have to maintain ground transmitters.
(wonder why they charge).
A bit of info for you,,, to go from satellite to terrestrial takes two buttons were as to go form satellite channel to another satellite channel takes three buttons. ( sky button (1,2,3,4,or 5 ) for terrestrial.... Buttons 101,102,103,104,105, or fav, fav,fav,fav, up to 20 times for sattellite,
This year is the first time the channel islands and others have had a year without the microwave link lifting through the weather.
As I said in my last comment they changed the coding so they should fund the cards.

I'm sorry but I've got to say something about the next statement.

1. BREACH OF FREE MINIDISH AND DIGIBOX TERMS:

As you know, it is a standard term of the free minidish and digibox offer and the interactive discount contract that a viewing card must be kept in the digibox for at least 12 months.

If a customer is not subscribing to a pay-Tv service, they will not be able to obtain a viewing card and this requirement will be waived. However, if in the next 12 months they obtain a viewing card for their digibox or it becomes possible to obtain one without subscribing to a pay-TV service, the requirement to keep the viewing card in the box for the remainder of the 12 month period will apply from that point.

This great deal is utter rubbish.... You cannot get a free minidish without subscribing to at least the minimunm package for one full years contract....

P.S. yes you can unsubcribe to sky after a year as long as the card is a new one. sky have told the bbc that they will honor these cards for as least five years.... ( lets see )
Tellstar........................

**rolfw** · 23-08-2003

Originally Posted by tellstar

Cards
MMMM!!!! rolfw
yes I can see that sky like to make lot's of money

Not disputedTellstar

I would like you also to be aware that all the fta channels have to pay to go on to skys listings,,,, as you are also aware there are other channels which the box's can recive from the same satellite not on the listings.

Yes, aware of both of those

Yes channel five was encrypted as you say soft encrypted
no card required... that was done to protect the uk actors ( another kettel of fish ) as as why the bbc have reduced the size of there footprint.

No, it was done to limit copyright infringements

belive it or not the bbc are saving the licence payers money by not paying for the encryption.

Yes, I'm fully aware of that, it is widely publicised as their reason for the change.

As for the itv channels they are sponsored by adds, so I don't think the licence payer will foot the bill. who else uses adds for sponsorship, oh yes sky, but unlike itv they don't have to maintain ground transmitters.
(wonder why they charge).

Sorry Tellstar, can't see your point on this one, I never said that if ITV paid for the cards, the public would foot the bill. Also Sky have to pay for satellite space and fund their programming by advertising and subscription, but why does that mean that they should pay for the card system for the ITV and co?

PS. ITV do not pay for the maintenance of the terrestrial transmitters, but do pay a carriage charge

A bit of info for you,,, to go from satellite to terrestrial takes two buttons were as to go form satellite channel to another satellite channel takes three buttons. ( sky button (1,2,3,4,or 5 ) for terrestrial.... Buttons 101,102,103,104,105, or fav, fav,fav,fav, up to 20 times for sattellite,

I'm not saying that it is quicker, just that the research by ITV companies, established that digital subscribers were ignoring the terrestrial channel while it wasn't on the digibox.

This year is the first time the channel islands and others have had a year without the microwave link lifting through the weather.
As I said in my last comment they changed the coding so they should fund the cards.

Didn't realise that, but perhaps they ought to be talking to the goverment about a solution.

ccm · 01-04-2004

hey rolf
sorry to bother you but is it possible to get itv free to air .I have an echo star receiver.if so what is the transponder frequency.

**PoloMint** · 01-04-2004

CCM, I know I’m not Rolf, but ITV is only broadcast encrypted in Videoguard, so can’t be received on your EchoStar. A Sky Digibox and card is needed.

ccm · 01-04-2004

thanks even though your not rolf

**punter45** · 14-12-2004

Existing as well as new, digital satellite viewers will be affected because Sky is currently in the process of a viewing card swap-out, which is necessary to ensure the security of the system.

1. BREACH OF FREE MINIDISH AND DIGIBOX TERMS:

if in the next 12 months they obtain a viewing card for their digibox or it becomes possible to obtain one without subscribing to a pay-TV service, the requirement to keep the viewing card in the box for the remainder of the 12 month period will apply from that point.

so you get a free installation by signing up for sky package then, once equipment is on site, pull payment and opt out under consumer protection rights, no need to keep card in box,(would have thought the card would be zapped from on high anyway) and no breach of contract. Sky now have to recover equipment as consumer only responsible for safe keeping of installation, Sky seem to have enough troubles with installation and p*c* power supplies, so it sits.

OK you buy FreeSat card and you have, a set top box, they know the system is in use if you activate the card, they want serial numbers. I can see how they may try to enforce the cost of the original contract but why

[quote][the requirement to keep the viewing card in the box for the remainder of the 12 month period will apply from that point.
/QUOTE]

True, it would make litigation more possible but if the card is always in the box, they can zap it when they please.

But hey, who cares, I doubt if itv will retreat from the high frontier, may be bad news for digibox people but it sounds as if it could be ok for the ex-pat's, they will live without Channels 4&5 and means we are all safe from Digidol

Alan Sheldrake · 21-12-2004

I have just bought a Televes Digital Satellite Receiver, which has a satellite type aerial and two scart outputs which I have connected to a Pace PRD800 decoder and a second tv which gives me loads of different digital channels on both sets. I sent off my twenty pounds to S*y for one of their blue cards with a gold house on but when I telephoned them and told them that it was in the slot they said that they were unable to turn me on as it had to be in one of their digital decoders.
Can I buy some sort of external cam and use my laptop and programmes from the net to get turned on does anyone know ?
I get all the BBC listings on my EPG screen from Astra 2A but they are still not FTA. Can,t see channel five anywhere even though I move my motorised metre dish about alot.

**rolfw** · 21-12-2004

You need a Sky Digibox, no substitute, but you can buy one on Ebay

for very little money.

**Analoguesat** · 21-12-2004

Alan, the BBC channel are fta - if you arent receiving them, something isnt set up correctly - Im watching BBC 1 on my Echostar at the moment. Try rescanning the BBC frequencies. ITV, ITV 2, C4 & C5 are scrambled as rolf said - if you wnat these you mUST have a Sky Digibox.

BTW - The BBC are on Astra 2D which has a restrioted footprint, so if you are outside the uk you may struggle to get it.

Alan Sheldrake · 23-12-2004

Thanks Guys,
I am watching 3 S*y Digiboxes on Ebay and I now realise that I have lost the vertical polarities on one of my LNB's, so I should be able to sort it out as Rolfw and Analoguesat have pointed me in the right direction.

**JayX** · 23-12-2004

is there any chance you could post in a style that makes my eyes bleed considerably less? ie like everyone else does. thanks.

**Analoguesat** · 23-12-2004

No vertical - your lnb is probably broken, or your receiver isnt switching from 18volts (H)- 13V (V).

Alan Sheldrake · 23-12-2004

Originally Posted by JayX

is there any chance you could post in a style that makes my eyes bleed considerably less? ie like everyone else does. thanks.

I can go smaller, but I like a bit of colour, is this more bearable :-)

Alan Sheldrake · 23-12-2004

Originally Posted by Analoguesat

No vertical - your lnb is probably broken, or your receiver isnt switching from 18volts (H)- 13V (V).

Its been out there for the past seventeen years and according to these Forums, it's not unusual for the vertical to fail. I have a couple of spare ones in the shed so I had better get my ladder out. (Is this blue too bright:-)

**JayX** · 23-12-2004

Originally Posted by Alan Sheldrake

I can go smaller, but I like a bit of colour, is this more bearable :-)

much better

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