Which programmer?

**mr_boyson** · 24-12-2004

Simple question: Which programmer do I need to be able to programme Fun6, M2, Tit etc.?

Will a basic serial smart-mouse progger work or do I need to spend some more money and buy an Infinity USB jobby?

Cheers guys,

mr_boyson

**Razor** · 24-12-2004

IF you buy an Infinity USB jobby?

Make sure it is a Phoenix Infinity USB jobby?

As MII and Tit can only be programed in Phoenix mode.

**mr_boyson** · 24-12-2004

Razor,

Thanks for your fast reply.

The "Phoenix Infinity USB jobby" is between 2-4 times more expensive than a serial Smart Mouse / Phoenix programmer which will work in the 3.58 MHz Phoenix mode and the 6 MHz Smartmouse mode.

Are there any major advantages of buying the Infinity progger or will a basic serial progger do?

***wolfav*** · 24-12-2004

i didnt listen and got robbed infinaty is the way to go i can sell u a half decent programer if ya wantit infinity pheonix is the light

**john_graydon** · 24-12-2004

Originally Posted by wolfav

i didnt listen and got robbed infinaty is the way to go i can sell u a half decent programer if ya wantit infinity pheonix is the light

You could also go for cas 2 + add on.

**Mickha** · 24-12-2004

Hi mr_boyson,
to use the Infinity/Phoenix your computer/laptop requires a dedicated Com port, as it needs to be connected using a serial and USB cable. If your computer doesn't have this facility you would be better off getting a Phoenix programmer that works just off the USB cable. There are a couple of these about, I've heard of, 1 being the CAS 2 + add on, the other being an adteknik model.
Best wishes
Mickha

**mr_boyson** · 24-12-2004

Thanks for all your replies.

Sound likes the Infinity USB Phoenix is the one to go for but, What's the advantage of getting a progger with USB interface when a basic £10-15 serial smartmouse/phoenix progger works in phoenix mode?

I don't mind spending the extra money, but need to know it's worth it!

**Razor** · 24-12-2004

You need to do the same thing we all do.....Look in your head first...Then your pocket.

Then pick one....LOL.

**mr_boyson** · 24-12-2004

:ch3

Yes Razor, I like that one!!

Guess I'll be using my flexible friend!!

***Milkybarkid*** · 24-12-2004

I have Infinity Phoenix and my computer has serial com ports.

Why do some laptops not have serial com ports ?

***BGonaSTICK*** · 24-12-2004

'Cos they're stupid. If you ask the manufacturers, they'll just say 'Legacy', like that's supposed to make it all better.

BTW, from the MII readme it says :-

"U can use any Phoenix programmer as long as it can communicate on 3.58 Mhz in phoenix mode ( not smartmouse mode )", although in the same breath they also recommend the Infinity USB Phoenix.

HTH.

***damhy*** · 25-12-2004

I recently bought the Duolabs Dynamite from unapit.com, programmer works very well, well after I found the correct serial cable to get the phoenix mode to work. Future drivers are supposed to do com port emulation over usb, but with sat stuff you're always promised things and never get them.

The only problem it has given me which my old (non pheonix) infinity programmer didnt was the funcard type detection. The inifinity knew i was using say a funcard 6. The duolabs, just says its a funcard and defaults to Funcard2, which nearly messed up my Cam when it missed out part of the firmware. Luckily the loader card sorted it out otherwise I would have been f...ed. Obviously you are supposed to select which funcard it is, after it has done the initial detect.

Just thought I'ld mention this programmer but if Mr Boyson is anything like me, i would have got impatient and ordered a programmer before anyone had had a chance to reply to my question.

**mr_boyson** · 25-12-2004

Thanks for all your input guys and Merry Christmas to you all!

I have not purchased anything yet, although I think I shall probably be buying the Infinity Phoenix USB. Although it seems to do everything that a basic serial smartmouse/phoenix progger does I am hoping that I will be "future proofing" myself by getting a progger that works with USB (and also better driver support?).

Any other feeback is, as always, very welcome!

cheers,

mr_boyson

***damhy*** · 25-12-2004

Apart from the specific software that comes with the programmer, all 3rd party stuff that I know of actually works via the serial port.

I dont really see this changing myself because from a programming perspective using the comm port allows you to write more generic software. There are obviously phoenix and smartmouse standards. Using the comm port you are able to write the software using these standards, the programmer knows how to understand them; even without the drivers installed on the computer, these 3rd Party comm port apps will probably work.

This is not the case when writing software for the USB port. Using the USB will require either some new standard to be introduced, which I doubt will happen for programmers. Without a new USB programmer standard(which of course is unlikely to work on the old equipement that you would be buying now) the software writers need to cater for every single programmer, which is a huge undertaking, just look how many there are. Sure they might make the effort for the popular ones like inifinity, but its all going to be a lot more work, and you'll start to find that instead of just needing a particular card like the (M2) you'ld end up needing a specific programmer for it as well(I shouldnt give them money making ideas like this).

As for usb having the latest drivers, I think you are better off looking at the make, the more popular ones like infinity are bound to have better driver support in the future, though like I said for as long as they use serial port connections, I'm not sure you actually need the drivers really, since the usb is not being used.

**Skint** · 28-12-2004

Originally Posted by damhy

Apart from the specific software that comes with the programmer, all 3rd party stuff that I know of actually works via the serial port.

I dont really see this changing myself because from a programming perspective using the comm port allows you to write more generic software. There are obviously phoenix and smartmouse standards. Using the comm port you are able to write the software using these standards, the programmer knows how to understand them; even without the drivers installed on the computer, these 3rd Party comm port apps will probably work.

This is not the case when writing software for the USB port. Using the USB will require either some new standard to be introduced, which I doubt will happen for programmers. Without a new USB programmer standard(which of course is unlikely to work on the old equipement that you would be buying now) the software writers need to cater for every single programmer, which is a huge undertaking, just look how many there are. Sure they might make the effort for the popular ones like inifinity, but its all going to be a lot more work, and you'll start to find that instead of just needing a particular card like the (M2) you'ld end up needing a specific programmer for it as well(I shouldnt give them money making ideas like this).

As for usb having the latest drivers, I think you are better off looking at the make, the more popular ones like infinity are bound to have better driver support in the future, though like I said for as long as they use serial port connections, I'm not sure you actually need the drivers really, since the usb is not being used.

Has anybody tried a 9 pin serial/USB adapter as a workaroud for us poor souls that have ultra modern computers that don't have com ports

I ask this because I,v just ordered a Phoenix Infinity USB jobby and a tit card

before realizing how important a serial port was ahgggggggg

Im going to try an adapter plug (from Mapli*s) before digging my old win98 computer out of its retirement cupboard

**Mickha** · 28-12-2004

Hi Skint,
I've read many posts on the problems of the Infinity/Phoenix USB and the need for a dedicated com port, and I've only seen 1 working solution to the problem. This involved a PCMCIA to serial adapter, but I can't remember where it was from, I know of a lot of people that have tried USB to Serial adapters without success, but perhaps you might be the lucky one.
Best wishes
Mickha

***BGonaSTICK*** · 28-12-2004

I can't believe how expensive this is, but have you thought about replacing the essential bits that the current batch of boards have seen fit to remove for no good reason?

_http://www.pcnextday.co.uk/product_detail.asp?stype=5&productcode=2910-1120&group=IOSER&pgroup=IO

STICK

**adrianmac** · 28-12-2004

Originally Posted by damhy

I recently bought the Duolabs Dynamite from unapit.com, programmer works very well, well after I found the correct serial cable to get the phoenix mode to work. Future drivers are supposed to do com port emulation over usb, but with sat stuff you're always promised things and never get them.

The only problem it has given me which my old (non pheonix) infinity programmer didnt was the funcard type detection. The inifinity knew i was using say a funcard 6. The duolabs, just says its a funcard and defaults to Funcard2, which nearly messed up my Cam when it missed out part of the firmware. Luckily the loader card sorted it out otherwise I would have been f...ed. Obviously you are supposed to select which funcard it is, after it has done the initial detect.

Just thought I'ld mention this programmer but if Mr Boyson is anything like me, i would have got impatient and ordered a programmer before anyone had had a chance to reply to my question.

Can you tell me where you got the serial cable as i have same problem

tks

**Skint** · 28-12-2004

Originally Posted by BGonaSTICK

I can't believe how expensive this is, but have you thought about replacing the essential bits that the current batch of boards have seen fit to remove for no good reason?

_http://www.pcnextday.co.uk/product_detail.asp?stype=5&productcode=2910-1120&group=IOSER&pgroup=IO

STICK

Cheers guys I'm picking up a pci serial port card tomorow from me local Mapl*ns store:chthumb

**adrianmac** · 28-12-2004

can someone help loaded 28/12/04 titanium nagra files on blue tit using a mat rev cam and picture still black

any clues

tks

***iwol*** · 28-12-2004

what about getting a com port on a laptop,very interested dont forget to post results please

**Skint** · 29-12-2004

Well it took less than 5 mins

I now have a 9 pin com port

iwol when I was searching the net for a PC com board I came across some for

laptops too so it can be done:chthumb

Mine cost £9.00

Now waiting for me card progger thingy to arrive:chh

***Milkybarkid*** · 29-12-2004

There is a progger that only uses the USB would this be suitable for laptops ?

***damhy*** · 29-12-2004

Most USB programmers still need the serial(comm) port connection for phoenix and smartmouse modes. You'll have to ensure that any USB only programmer can emulate a comm port otherwise third part applications will not be compatible with it.

**Mickha** · 29-12-2004

Hi Milkybarkid,
I think there is an Adteknik model that can program in Phoenix mode, using just a USB connection, I'll try to find out more.
Best wishes
Mickha

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