1.8 meter fortec star help

tunesguy · 12-09-2007

hi all, i live in northwales and generally fit sky and freeview aerials etc..

my big interest tho is setting up motor dishes which i install professionally for customers..

i have 2 motorised systems myself one for dreambox 7020 on a 1.2 meter using usals and a 1 meter for my relook box..

my aim here is to get tv1000 on 5e a bit better as the 1m and 1.2 meter struggle when its raining so i bought a fortec star 1.8 meter prime focus with the infracom .3 with feedhorn but i have managed to get 5e but the signal is slightly less than the 1.2 meter signal, what is the best way to setup the 1.8 meter i have a rover meter but limited transponders

it seems like the whole of the 1.8 meter dish is not being used,

any ideas anyone ? thanks all for reading hope somebody can give me some advice

cheers

**rolfw** · 12-09-2007

These dishes are notorious for not performing, they are to put it honestly, cheap and nasty.

If you are really meticulous with the setting up, using lines to check for irregularities, then you may get it to perform somewhere close to a normal 1.8m dish, but it will be difficult.

Our member RD100 had the 2.4 I believe and managed to get it performing, but then it buckled in high winds.

tunesguy · 12-09-2007

so who else has managed to set up a 1.8 meter fortec ? it just seems strange why it doesnt use the full dish

this type of dish is new to me and i have never dabled before, i just can work out why i cant get a good signal even using this type of lnb

cheers for your post dude

***CROSSBONES*** · 12-09-2007

yes, unless its put together perfectly, it will perform bad.

Even 1mm out, will affect the performance.

As rolfw has said rd100 had a fortecstar, but the 1.8m version.(pay attention rolfw

)

You would be better off going for a channel master/Andrews, or precision or prodelin dish`s.

There is a channel master 1.8m on Ebay

now 250163839595 .

tunesguy · 12-09-2007

hmmm i see yea that makes sence... i will go check it out but if not i`ll just weigh it in and get a proper non petal dish, cheers for the advice guys

12-09-2007

I had the 1.8m fortec star and it was a cheap and nasty dish but when i set it up it worked well i used it for nilsat and also used c-band on it and it worked just good as my old 1.8m channel master and also worked just as good as my 1.8m prodelin which i have now,

Also i think maplin should put a warning on these dishes that say for satellite professionals & enthusiast only,

I would post more info on this dish but no need but a quick search of the forum gives all the info,

12-09-2007

I did have the 1.8m fortec star but i have used the 2.4m fortec star which set up for a friend but as it is wafer thin sheet metal its more of a pain than the 1.8m but once set up the 2.4m fortec star will give the gain of a high price 2.4m dish,

I wonder out of all the fortec star dishes that maplin sell how how many are up and working as they should be,

Originally Posted by rolfw

These dishes are notorious for not performing, they are to put it honestly, cheap and nasty.

If you are really meticulous with the setting up, using lines to check for irregularities, then you may get it to perform somewhere close to a normal 1.8m dish, but it will be difficult.

Our member RD100 had the 2.4 I believe and managed to get it performing, but then it buckled in high winds.

tunesguy · 13-09-2007

tomorrow im gonna align all the petals and make sure there bang on, i could nt understand what was wrong as my 1.0 meter dish was actually pulling in tv1000 on 5e better than the 1.8 meter...

i really would not have thought that it would have made a great differance if there slightly out but as ive never really done anything with this type of petal dish before its all new to me, i thought maybe the feedhorn was small at the end

bearing in mind im s*** hot at installing motor dishes from 42e - 45w so im no begginner

cheers guys

***pedro2000uk*** · 13-09-2007

fortec star 1.8 / 2.4 dishes

These dishes 'are' cheap and obviously not strong enough for high winds... but at that price they are well worth 'fortifying' before leaving them out to high winds... once they are setup 100%..... The claimed gain seems plausible, the shape is OK and being so light has its advantages once it's made rigid enough....

Its interesting that the LNB may see less than the full dish and its definitely on the focus point..... if we get one I'd definitely spend some time on establishing LNB matching ...

can't have one here but we do have a property that would take one.

tunesguy · 14-09-2007

hmmm, spent over 3 hours making sure all petals were bolted correctly and as flat as near damn it, still the same kinda signal so i checked the dish with the fishing line trick and the dish is mint all lines crossed nicely,

ok so i swung the dish to astra 2 28.2 bbc1 transponder now im using the satfinder on me dreambox which is pretty cool, but SNR is 88% and AGC is 85% strange i thought might have been about 95-98 but my 1.2 meter dish is about 93% so i thought it may have been there with that signal..

im using the infacom .3 lnb with feedhorn but i personally think the feedhorn end is not big enough as its only about 2 inches ? is this correct for this size dish, it seems to me like its only using a small portion of the dish..ive wound the varible right in and out and the further out it gets good but i have to have it right on the end ??

anybody with any ideas ive got 7 days before it goes back to mapl**

cheers

tunesguy · 14-09-2007

if anybody knows or wants to sell there 1.8 or above and not to far away i would be interested, cheers

14-09-2007

What feed horn is it have you got any pics of the dish with the feed on it you can put on the forum,

Also just because the petals look lined up with the naked eye it does not mean they are they only need to be out less than 1mm and they 1.8m dish will act as a 90cm dish,

Originally Posted by tunesguy

hmmm, spent over 3 hours making sure all petals were bolted correctly and as flat as near damn it, still the same kinda signal so i checked the dish with the fishing line trick and the dish is mint all lines crossed nicely,

ok so i swung the dish to astra 2 28.2 bbc1 transponder now im using the satfinder on me dreambox which is pretty cool, but SNR is 88% and AGC is 85% strange i thought might have been about 95-98 but my 1.2 meter dish is about 93% so i thought it may have been there with that signal..

im using the infacom .3 lnb with feedhorn but i personally think the feedhorn end is not big enough as its only about 2 inches ? is this correct for this size dish, it seems to me like its only using a small portion of the dish..ive wound the varible right in and out and the further out it gets good but i have to have it right on the end ??

anybody with any ideas ive got 7 days before it goes back to mapl**

cheers

tunesguy · 14-09-2007

the feedhorn is the c120 adjustable feed horn 0,32 - 0,43 part number ADF-120

apart from an expensive leveler what is the best way to get these petals ligned up, quite tricky as the bolts are quite dificult to get in.. when i run my finger over they feel fine no bumps lol

***pedro2000uk*** · 14-09-2007

You sound well up so some of this will be obvious, so apologies for that..
Definitely ditto rd100...
Test the LNBs view by going round the edge of the dish with material that will definitely block the signal and not reflect it either- A4 piece of thick card? .. .. That is 50mm in, 100mm in etc… until the signal lowers etc and monitor the signal ‘quality’ on the TP on a monitor showing the sat picture and signal bars ‘at the dish’ as well as a meter (and try a reflective piece of a4 ali mesh or tin foil etc.. moulded to the dish curve… just outside the rim of the dish to see if the LNB is seeing outside the dish area… . The signal should go up noticeably - loss can come from the LNB seeing noise outside the dish area.
Remove the LNB from its holder and move it around and in and out on the same axis to check the lnb’s focal point matches the dish’s although its hard sometimes to distinguish this from loss from the lnb’s view being out.
Check that the LNB support arms and holder are true.. They are really flimsy.
Try the lnb’s off your other dishes… on the 1.8 and visa versa..
Double check that the 1.8’s position hasn’t got obstructions or reflections that the other dishes don’t-
What about a laser level/digital measure to check the LNB feed horn cone match to the dish? They are cheap enough now… and you don‘t need to touch the dish / lnb etc. We use one for getting pole’s vertical after calibrating it exactly on a string line indoors- no wind problems although we still check it with a string line.

and don't forget to try tech_support@fortecstar.com

All obvious stuff I know……but hope some of that’s useful.

***CROSSBONES*** · 14-09-2007

You say you are an installer. Do you own a spectrum Analiser?

Maybe make your job easier

14-09-2007

That feedhorn is fine in fact it is a very good one and is the same one i was using as the dish has a F/D Ratio of
0.38,

To line the petal up takes time and expensive gear the laser kits we use in work which will work on petal dishes from 1.5m to 19m cost £££££££££££, so they one way you can do it is guess work,

Also have you set the focal point of the feedhorn which should be 682 mm (26.85") and your dish has a F/D Ratio of
0.38 ,

What are the best results you are getting now you have re done the dish,

Originally Posted by tunesguy

the feedhorn is the c120 adjustable feed horn 0,32 - 0,43 part number ADF-120

apart from an expensive leveler what is the best way to get these petals ligned up, quite tricky as the bolts are quite dificult to get in.. when i run my finger over they feel fine no bumps lol

14-09-2007

All what you have said there is a waste of time he has the correct ku-band linear feed horn for the dish as the feedhorn has a adjustable beamwidth F/D of 0.32 - 0.43 the 1.8m fortec star has a F/D Ratio of 0.38 so its the correct horn which myself and 1000's of other people are using,

Contacting fortec star is not going to do any good as jonsa make the dishes fortec just rebrand them and sell them on.

Originally Posted by pedro2000uk

You sound well up so some of this will be obvious, so apologies for that..
Definitely ditto rd100...
Test the LNBs view by going round the edge of the dish with material that will definitely block the signal and not reflect it either- A4 piece of thick card? .. .. That is 50mm in, 100mm in etc… until the signal lowers etc and monitor the signal ‘quality’ on the TP on a monitor showing the sat picture and signal bars ‘at the dish’ as well as a meter (and try a reflective piece of a4 ali mesh or tin foil etc.. moulded to the dish curve… just outside the rim of the dish to see if the LNB is seeing outside the dish area… . The signal should go up noticeably - loss can come from the LNB seeing noise outside the dish area.
Remove the LNB from its holder and move it around and in and out on the same axis to check the lnb’s focal point matches the dish’s although its hard sometimes to distinguish this from loss from the lnb’s view being out.
Check that the LNB support arms and holder are true.. They are really flimsy.
Try the lnb’s off your other dishes… on the 1.8 and visa versa..
Double check that the 1.8’s position hasn’t got obstructions or reflections that the other dishes don’t-
What about a laser level/digital measure to check the LNB feed horn cone match to the dish? They are cheap enough now… and you don‘t need to touch the dish / lnb etc. We use one for getting pole’s vertical after calibrating it exactly on a string line indoors- no wind problems although we still check it with a string line.

and don't forget to try tech_support@fortecstar.com

All obvious stuff I know……but hope some of that’s useful.

ambush · 14-09-2007

Originally Posted by Rd100

That feedhorn is fine in fact it is a very good one and is the same one i was using as the dish has a F/D Ratio of
0.38,

This 0.38cms is this the distance from the throat to the feedhorn rings?

14-09-2007

No the scalar rings should be set to 0.38, Here is how to set & calculate formulas for focal distance and f/D ratios, If you use this your dish will be spot on,

To calculate the focal distance, you have to measure the diameter (D) and the depth (d) of the dish. Measurements should be in like units (you can't use feet for the diameter and inches for depth). For the example, we will say we have a dish that is 120 inches in diameter (D) and 18 inches deep (d).

focal distance (f) equals the diameter squared (D x D) divided by 16 times the depth (16 x d) or :

D x D = 120 x 120 = 14400
16 x d = 16 x 18 = 288
D x D/16 x d = 14400/288 = 50

focal distance f = 50 inches

After you have calculated the focal distance (f), you can use that figure to calculate the f/D ratio of your dish. In this case, using the same diameter (D) = 120; and the calculated focal distance (f) = 50

f / D = 50 / 120 = .416
f /D = .416 which you would round up to give you a setting of .42

The list below shows how far the throat is out from the scalar rings for different f/D settings.
EXAMPLE: A dish with a .42 f/D will have the throat about flush with the rings.

Inches -- f/D
.12 ------ .42
.32 ------ .40
.52 ------ .38
.72 ------ .36
.92 ------ .34
1.12 ---- .32

Originally Posted by ambush

This 0.38cms is this the distance from the throat to the feedhorn rings?

ambush · 14-09-2007

Ok, thanks,but how do you set the scalar rings to 0.38?

14-09-2007

On some feedhorns it is marked on them but i guess you did not read the above post of mine

How far the throat is out from the scalar rings = READ BELOW and the above post of mine,

Set your scalar ring to 0.38 f/d by setting you scalar ring at a distance of .52 inch from the throat of the feedhorn

I can not believe people buy these type of dishes with out doing their research first,

Originally Posted by ambush

Ok, thanks,but how do you set the scalar rings to 0.38?

***pedro2000uk*** · 15-09-2007

Cheers rd100-
…not sure about “all what you have said there is a waste of time“ hmmm .. and er..“I can not believe ‘people’ buy these type of dishes without doing their research first“,
Hmmm…. bit heavy that rd, tis a forum after all and anyhoo…‘you’ bought one!….. and ‘you’ didn‘t do your research cos.. ‘I’ definitely wouldn’t actually ‘leave one outside‘…… without strengthening it first….
…I swear we used to have an ironing board with the same adjuster that’s on the back of the 1.8, If my memory serves we had to strengthen that with angle too (lengthways of course) and we had to match the iron to the board. The heavier Phillips sd650 iron used to make it bow in the middle so we used the lighter Morphy Richards 220 (you know, the one with TurboSteam) and that worked fine… although we still had problems with weaker tps on 5e when it rained …damn! Hey, maybe you could iron the dish… would that help? we have a spare Phillips sd650.. hardly used.

***Lancelot*** · 15-09-2007

Lol

L.

15-09-2007

LOL.

Why should i need to do research to install a small 1.8m fortec star i install large RX/TX dishes at transmitter sites and earth stations for a living all over the uk.

The reson my 1.8m got damaged is because i live on the side of a mountain and the sheet steal of the fortec star 1.8m is so wafer thin the wind we had back in the storm which ripped loads of tree down all around here and other places in the uk ripped the petals from the dish like a hot knife through butter the mount was still standing and still bolted to the floor, My dish was even reported damaged in wotsat mag when the member analogue reported it in has artical on the storm in wotsat magazine,

Originally Posted by pedro2000uk

Cheers rd100-
…not sure about “all what you have said there is a waste of time“ hmmm .. and er..“I can not believe ‘people’ buy these type of dishes without doing their research first“,
Hmmm…. bit heavy that rd, tis a forum after all and anyhoo…‘you’ bought one!….. and ‘you’ didn‘t do your research cos.. ‘I’ definitely wouldn’t actually ‘leave one outside‘…… without strengthening it first….
…I swear we used to have an ironing board with the same adjuster that’s on the back of the 1.8, If my memory serves we had to strengthen that with angle too (lengthways of course) and we had to match the iron to the board. The heavier Phillips sd650 iron used to make it bow in the middle so we used the lighter Morphy Richards 220 (you know, the one with TurboSteam) and that worked fine… although we still had problems with weaker tps on 5e when it rained …damn! Hey, maybe you could iron the dish… would that help? we have a spare Phillips sd650.. hardly used.

tunesguy · 15-09-2007

cheers for all the help you guys, im giving up on this piece a maplin rubbish, ive tried for about 4 days to aligh, straighten, but it is not for me.. so im off to bristol tomorrow and buying a channel master

for the people who have had success with the fortec star maplin dish welldone, im jealous..

thanks once again for all the info

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