Using C120 Feedhorn on Channelmaster?

**canofan** · 23-10-2007

Hi there!
I am trying to improve reception on a Channelmaster 120 dish using a quattro lnb. I have been told that using an offset type C120 feedhorn would improve the situation dramatically, in fringe KU band situations.
There seems not enough experience around me to verify those claims.
If reception is really improvable, is the result sufficient to justify the investment?
Which c120 quattro lnb? Which feedhorn? Andrews, Inverto or other?
I am trying to reach the difficult high band horizontals on Nilesat 7W.
I thank you in anticipation for any help.

***CROSSBONES*** · 23-10-2007

An andrews/channel master feed horn is the best match for your dish.

Inverto or Invacom are excellent lnb's. The Invacom quad is said to get better results.

do a search on the subject, it has been covered many times.

**michael01707** · 23-10-2007

I have both of these LNBs and have found the Invacom to work better but I've read posts supporting the Inverto LNB.

To be able to receive a strong signal on the Nilesat horizontals is like finding the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for a lot of us!

**keano** · 24-10-2007

m8 it is a must that you use matched feedhorn with the CM dish.

I have both the invacom c120 single and inverto c120 single and found the invcacom slighter better than the inverto.

I have order the invacom quad but 8 days on still have not received it.

I am able to get most H beams OK now 24/7 from 7.0w but I have a 2.4mtr dish I don't know if you can in Belgium with your dish size.

**canofan** · 25-10-2007

Unfortunately I have to stick to the CM120 as a maximum, winds on the 13th floor roof are too gusty.
Besides, I have to stick to Quattro because of the use of proper line amplifiers to overcome the long cable to the receiver, and the obligation of providing a connection to those who require one in the building.
From what you say, it is an Andrews offset feedhorn that I need.
But since feedhorns are mated to the dish, which particular feedhorn mates to the CM120? I have read recommendations that a feedhorn for the CM120 is the same as for the CM180, but I am not convinced, as I believe the feedhorn should light up the exact area of the dish, no more no less; as more area will invite noise and less area will yield less signal.
Thank you for your intervention Keano, and I hope that the community could bring the matter further.
By the way, do you also receive 12399 H on 7°W?

**keano** · 25-10-2007

Originally Posted by canofan

Unfortunately I have to stick to the CM120 as a maximum, winds on the 13th floor roof are too gusty.
Besides, I have to stick to Quattro because of the use of proper line amplifiers to overcome the long cable to the receiver, and the obligation of providing a connection to those who require one in the building.
From what you say, it is an Andrews offset feedhorn that I need.
But since feedhorns are mated to the dish, which particular feedhorn mates to the CM120? I have read recommendations that a feedhorn for the CM120 is the same as for the CM180, but I am not convinced, as I believe the feedhorn should light up the exact area of the dish, no more no less; as more area will invite noise and less area will yield less signal.
Thank you for your intervention Keano, and I hope that the community could bring the matter further.
By the way, do you also receive 12399 H on 7°W?

Hi m8,

Yes I can get 12399H 24/7 here and is one of the strongest H transponders for me.

Regarding the feedhorn then the same one covers CM 120,180,240.

Its the length of the arms that allows the feedhorn to see the right amount of dish face.

**canofan** · 25-10-2007

Thank you Keano.
I will be ordering a Channel Master 611-6060-07 Wide Band 1 LNB 1 Polarity Linear Fixed Feed Horn Assembly from the United States for US$ 55. I did not find an Inverto quad in flange form. But since I need a quattro I have found an Inverto in Germany at 24 Euros, the same one, elsewhere, costs £50. I know that Quad and Quattro are built using the same shell and the same geometry, so could claim the same quality.
Should I go ahead?

**Turok** · 25-10-2007

Hello!
there,are to versions outhere,of the inverto c120 feedhorn,the gold one,is the orginal,and the silver version,is the cheap imitation of them!

you can,modifieize,every normal lnb,into flansch version,cut it at the right place,then fix it with super glow,wait 24 h,then you can use it,problem,everything must be made very exactly and needs time,also then is not easy,the self made lnb removing from the antenna arm,but it works,i try this many years ago
inavom is the only quad flange!
manufactor!

**timbo86** · 25-10-2007

You will only need a 'Quattro' if you are using a multiswitch, other wise use a Quad.

**canofan** · 26-10-2007

Thank you Keano,Turok and Timbo for your replies.
I wonder what Likvid would have to say if he still connects.
I want to play safe and therefore shall not do such a precise transformation on an LNB; the setup on the roof will be common to all residents in the building and I must use a Quattro for the multiswitch; besides, a multiswitch allows the use of proper line amplifiers to compensate for loss in the long cables.
If my quest does not lead to a significant improvement, I shall be forced to upgrade to a CM180, deal with the wind, get twice the area and a 6db increase.
In the meantime I am very pleased with how things are progressing, thanks to your advice, guys. The question of the feedhorn is settled. The Inverto Quattro described on the satsuperstore site needs investigation; is it the golden one?

**keano** · 26-10-2007

m8 I am not sure about that because I have never used one.

I use the CM feedhorn with a invacom c120.

I did try the inverto c120 but this gave me less %.

**Turok** · 27-10-2007

Hi!
here,are pictures,of my setup ivacom quad + feedhorn on my 2,20 m antenna for 42e eastbeam!

**canofan** · 14-12-2007

Hi again,
My Invacom Quad C120 has arrived but my order for a Channel Master 611-6060-07 feedhorn never came through.
In the meantime I have the opportunity to buy the 611-6060-10 which is specialised in the high band.
As Nilesat is mostly in that band, so why not?
Would it, like any specialised item perform better than a wide band item?
Thanks for any response

**keano** · 15-12-2007

m8 i have both the 07 and the 10 and I found the 10 to perform slighty better than 07.

**canofan** · 30-12-2007

having visited: _http://www.dowelectronics.com/ProductImages/Section%204_2.pdf
Please view page 93 of this pdf catalogue. it contains images of the different references.

I am now even more confused about the different references of the Andrew ku feedhorn.

Ku Feed RxO 611606010 Polarization: single linear.

Ku Feed RxO 611606210 Polarization: dual linear, orthogonal.

Ku Feed RxO 611606007 Polarization: single linear (circular optional), corrugated feed horn

Ku Feed RxO 611606207 Polarization: dual linear, orthogonal (circular optional), corrugated feed horn

I know that for our usage single linear is for the high band only and dual linear is for both low and high band. So one should choose between the 2 varieties of the (10) end digits, depending on application.

What I do not understand is the importance of the circular optional capability of the corrugated feedhorn, with the (07) end digits.

can anyone explain?

**Channel Hopper** · 30-12-2007

Originally Posted by Canofan

What I do not understand is the importance of the circular optional capability of the corrugated feedhorn, with the (07) end digits.

can anyone explain?

611606007 is the one that is most commonly used on the 1.2 receive antennas and is the one you should be ordering.

Circular option is the ability for the feed to accept a dielectric plate, even though you will not need it.

30-12-2007

Right here it goes the circular option is for satellites the use left & right hand circular

Also you are wrong with the requirements you only need a dual linear / circular orthogonal for VSAT ( 2 way satellite Internet) as you need two ports one port for the c120 lnb and one for the BUC (transmitter)

And just to add the best way to get the most amount of gain out of your dish for nilesat is as follows, At home a have a 1.8m dish and get nilesat 24/7 and in the rain,

I also can receive nilesat on my 1.2m Andrew type 120 dish but the signal drops out in the rain this is with the 611-6060-07 linear feed and invacom but it does not drop out in the rain using a 611-6060-10 and a professional norsat 4000a lnb which covers 11.7 -12.2 and gives a better gain all around as the lnb covers the right band for the showtime transponders and the feedhorn 611-6060-10 gives better gain as it covers a narrower band of the ku-band

Originally Posted by canofan

having visited: _http://www.dowelectronics.com/ProductImages/Section%204_2.pdf
Please view page 93 of this pdf catalogue. it contains images of the different references.

I am now even more confused about the different references of the Andrew ku feedhorn.

Ku Feed RxO 611606010 Polarization: single linear.

Ku Feed RxO 611606210 Polarization: dual linear, orthogonal.

Ku Feed RxO 611606007 Polarization: single linear (circular optional), corrugated feed horn

Ku Feed RxO 611606207 Polarization: dual linear, orthogonal (circular optional), corrugated feed horn

I know that for our usage single linear is for the high band only and dual linear is for both low and high band. So one should choose between the 2 varieties of the (10) end digits, depending on application.

What I do not understand is the importance of the circular optional capability of the corrugated feedhorn, with the (07) end digits.

can anyone explain?

**canofan** · 31-12-2007

@RD100

Wow! I am overwhelmed. Profuse thanks for your extremely valued advice. You gave me tremendous info.

Could I bother you with trivial questions?

How does the response of the Norsat 4206A dwindle after 12.2ghz. How will 12226H, 12284V and 12303H be affected?
Is the Norsat a Universal LNB switched by 14/18 volt diseqc?
Does a twin exist? As a twin could be fed with the correct voltages so that they multiswitch the H and V polarities.

31-12-2007

The norsat is a singal band lnb not a universal lnb and yes after 12.200 you will loose gain very bad,

I think the best option for you would be a invacom or inverto c120 lnb with the 611-6060-07 feedhorn as the 611-6060-10 will only give you from 11.700 - 12.200 http://www.andrew.com/search/BN_PA-100533-EN.aspx

Originally Posted by canofan

@RD100

Wow! I am overwhelmed. Profuse thanks for your extremely valued advice. You gave me tremendous info.

Could I bother you with trivial questions?

How does the response of the Norsat 4206A dwindle after 12.2ghz. How will 12226H, 12284V and 12303H be affected?
Is the Norsat a Universal LNB switched by 14/18 volt diseqc?
Does a twin exist? As a twin could be fed with the correct voltages so that they multiswitch the H and V polarities.

blobber · 31-12-2007

Is the difference between the -07 and -10 only the frequency band?

What confuses me is that on my old Echostar/Prodelin offset dish (supposedly same fd as the CM/Andrew) the original feed horn is more like the shape and diameter of the -10 but as far as I know it was supposed to be wideband. The -07 looks so different, that I wonder what does the extra diameter do? Might it have a different cutoff taper or something? I am intending to try one on my dish so would like to understand all the issues in advance.

**canofan** · 31-12-2007

Well noted RD100. The Norsat is a single band LNB.

But, in a single band LNB, how does the receiver differentiate between vertical and horizontal TP's?.

Swedish Microwave also make Single band LNB's.

_http://www.comat-sat.com/contenu_pdf.asp?idtri=-412083731&idcontenu_contenu=2053641227

They make one with an LO of 10.6. This seems a good compromise to use in high band. Does it to you?

Specification
SMW LNB Single 10.6
Frequency range 11.7 - 12.75 GHz
LO frequency 10.6 GHz
Output frequency 1100 - 2150 MHz

General Specification SMW LNB Single
Gain 54 +/- 3 dB (See option)
Gain variation +/- 0.3 dB within 30 MHz
Noise Figure, typical 0.8 dB
LO stability (over temp.) +/- 3 MHz
LO Phase noise typical -75 dBc @ 1 kHz
-85 dBc @ 5 kHz
-95 dBc @ 10 kHz
-110 dBc @ 100 kHz
-115 dBc @ >1 MHz
LO radiation -50 dBm
Image rejection 50 dB min
1 dB gain compression point +5 dBm
Input WR-75 waveguide
Output F-connector 75 ohm or N-connector 50 ohm, water proof
Output VSWR 2.0:1
DC power 12 - 24 V
145 mA typ
Operating temperature -30 to +60°C
Weight 230 g (F), 246 g (N)

31-12-2007

Yes it seems good SMW make good lnbs if it is not volt switching though you would need a polarizer and receiver that can drive a polarizer,

Originally Posted by canofan

Well noted RD100. The Norsat is a single band LNB.

But, in a single band LNB, how does the receiver differentiate between vertical and horizontal TP's?.

Swedish Microwave also make Single band LNB's.

_http://www.comat-sat.com/contenu_pdf.asp?idtri=-412083731&idcontenu_contenu=2053641227

They make one with an LO of 10.6. This seems a good compromise to use in high band. Does it to you?

Specification
SMW LNB Single 10.6
Frequency range 11.7 - 12.75 GHz
LO frequency 10.6 GHz
Output frequency 1100 - 2150 MHz

General Specification SMW LNB Single
Gain 54 +/- 3 dB (See option)
Gain variation +/- 0.3 dB within 30 MHz
Noise Figure, typical 0.8 dB
LO stability (over temp.) +/- 3 MHz
LO Phase noise typical -75 dBc @ 1 kHz
-85 dBc @ 5 kHz
-95 dBc @ 10 kHz
-110 dBc @ 100 kHz
-115 dBc @ >1 MHz
LO radiation -50 dBm
Image rejection 50 dB min
1 dB gain compression point +5 dBm
Input WR-75 waveguide
Output F-connector 75 ohm or N-connector 50 ohm, water proof
Output VSWR 2.0:1
DC power 12 - 24 V
145 mA typ
Operating temperature -30 to +60°C
Weight 230 g (F), 246 g (N)

**canofan** · 31-12-2007

Thank you, you have answered my question.
If you are afraid the SMW may not be voltage switching, this means the Norsat is.

31-12-2007

You can not volt and non volt switching NORSAT make lnbs to your spec,

Originally Posted by canofan

Thank you, you have answered my question.
If you are afraid the SMW may not be voltage switching, this means the Norsat is.

**canofan** · 31-12-2007

What about those deliverable from stock.
How do you know which is which?
The specs do not say.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)