N00b in Cairo - A few questions

GenericN · 09-09-2008

Hello,

I would like to apologize for making a request out of my first post. I am quite new to this whole satellite TV world and I did my homework over the last couple of hours. However, I found out that I may need some help in order to know the diameter of the dish that I will require and the satellite channels that I will be able to receive.

What I need?
I grew quite tired of all the local Nilesat and ART channels, so I thought about adding a new dish and buying a receiver or a Twinhan DVB-S card in order to receive some European channels - German? - to break the monotony of life and to refresh my knowledge of German.

I do not know anything about satellites. The ART technicians came and did everything the first time, and the receiver is probably locked to their service. I did try going into the setup to search for other satellites, here's a list of what I found available there:
1- Hotbird. - The strongest signal of any European satellite in this region?
2- Intelsat 707.
3- Intelsat 907.
4- PAS 1R. - Internet satellite?
5- Sirius. - Seems to have some channels.
6- Telecom 2A.
7- Telecom 2C.
8- Telecom 2D.
9- Thor. - Seems to have some channels.
10- Turksat 1B.
11- Turksat 1C.

The signal strength was 6% and I was not able to find any channels after performing an automatic search. I guess that this may be because the very small fixed ART dish is pointed towards the Nilesat, also as far as I understand it may be too small to receive any signal from those satellites.

After some research it seems that some of the aforementioned satellites are more oriented towards communication/broadband services, which is not what I am interested in.

Anyway, to make a long story short, here are my questions:
1- What diameter should the dish be if I am to receive some FTA European channels, in English and German, of average quality? I am not interested in HDTV and I do not have the setup for that. My main interest is cultural channels as I am not a big fan of sports.
2- What are the satellites that a dish of each diameter will be able to list? I can look up the channels if I know the names of the satellites that have a coverage in my region, but the footprint maps aren't that helpful.
3- What will the price tag for the dish & LNB be? in dollars or EGP, it's Okay if you can't help with that.

I did look at the footprint maps, and so far it seems that I need a 115+ cm dish for Hotbird, a 150+ cm dish for Sirius, and a 130+ cm dish for Thor.

A search for Egypt in this forum returned the following piece of information:
A- I can't legally obtain any 240+ cm dishes.

Also, aren't those big ugly dishes for the C-band? Do I have to go through troublesome setup or to search for strange LNB's in order to have a big dish that will receive the Ku band?

Sorry for my long post.

Thanks!

**Topper** · 09-09-2008

Welcome to the forum GenericN

Firstly yes you are correct it is a long post and I doubt I can answer everything this evening.

The first thing you need to understand is that you can only receive the one satellite unless you have either multiple lnb's or multiple dishes or a motorised dish. It is a common mistake that newbies make. The reason they make the mistake is that satellites across the Clarke curve re-use the same satellite frequency parameters and thus when an stb has been pre-loaded with channel information, it looks like you are receiving stations from other satellites as they are re-using the same frequency and other settings as the one you are pointing at.

Unless you receive a reply from another person in Egypt or similar area it is difficult to say what you will need. It is better to look at _www.lyngsat.com and decide what you would like to receive, then click on the beam information to see what size of dish you would need from where you are if indeed the footprint is going in your direction.

**Analoguesat** · 09-09-2008

Originally Posted by GenericN

1- Hotbird. - The strongest signal of any European satellite in this region?
2- Intelsat 707.
3- Intelsat 907.
4- PAS 1R. - Internet satellite?
5- Sirius. - Seems to have some channels.
6- Telecom 2A.
7- Telecom 2C.
8- Telecom 2D.
9- Thor. - Seems to have some channels.
10- Turksat 1B.
11- Turksat 1C.

Thats a very very old list! A good few of those satellites are no longer in operation / have been replaced by newer satellites.

Have a look at this list to see whats still operational:
_http://www.flysat.com/satlist.php

GenericN · 09-09-2008

Thanks for your hearty welcome and for taking the time to go through that long post of mine!

That is okay, I can understand.

I did know about the pricey motorized dish solution, but I didn't know anything about having multiple LNB's. Isn't the LNB supposed to be located at the focal point of the dish? Won't multiple LNB's mean that none of them will be in that focal point and that the collected signal will be dispersed?

I did go to the website that you kindly provided, it seems that most of the interesting German channels are on Astra 1H and Hotbird 6. The footprint map for Astra 1H says that a 120cm dish is required for reception in northern Tunis, Algeria, and Morocco. The coverage does not show the signal strength for the rest of North Africa.

I seem to be in the 40dBW range of Hotbird 6, this probably means that a 1.8 m dish will do the job, right? I just was wondering whether I will be wasting my money by getting a grotesque 2.4m monster instead. I have the space, but the installation will be troublesome, but then it's just 60cm's.

They are located at 19.2E and 13E, will two LNB's do the job? or do I have to get a motorized dish and a DVB card(or a receiver) with DiSEqC? Which setup is more cost-effective?

After a quick search I see prices around $300 which is good, but I don't want a monster dish for such a basic set-up. It's just that I do not want to unnecessarily waste my resources.

Thanks again! And sorry for my newbie questions.

@Analoguesat:
Thanks! I just listed what was on that receiver that came with my ART subscription, I did not even know what those names stood for earlier this day.

I will spend more time researching the satellites covering this region of the world. I just wish that there was some sort of a world map where one could just click on a certain country and get a list containing the satellites covering that region along with the dish size required for each one instead of having to go through dozens of images with a calculator in one's hand. It seems that this whole satellite TV game is more dynamic than what I had in mind.

**Analoguesat** · 09-09-2008

40dBW equates to about 1.2m.

_http://www.flysat.com/dish.php

There are one or two members in the Middle East area and should be able to give you some ideas of whats possible.

GenericN · 09-09-2008

Originally Posted by Analoguesat

40dBW equates to about 1.2m.

_http://www.flysat.com/dish.php

There are one or two members in the Middle East area and should be able to give you some ideas of whats possible.

Very interesting, that's 120 cm saved.

Sorry for the trouble!

**bigtee** · 10-09-2008

Hotbird is a popular satellite in Cairo (I lived there briefly in 2k6). In fact, the set up that was in my apartment then was a two-LNB set up receiving Nilesat and Hotbird on one dish. At the time, I was not very familiar with dish sizes but in hindsight it probably was a 1.8. You might get joy if you ask a local installer to add an LNB to the current set up for Hotbird. (Edited: assuming your current dish is of an adequate size)

I think 19e (Astra 1) will be rather difficult though I do know someone who receives some of Astra 2/EB1 (28e) on a gianormous dish.

**Analoguesat** · 10-09-2008

No problem GenericN - we are happy to advise on sensible questions. Be aware that footprint maps are indicative only - many satellites can be received much further away with big dishes.

GenericN · 10-09-2008

Originally Posted by bigtee

Hotbird is a popular satellite in Cairo (I lived there briefly in 2k6). In fact, the set up that was in my apartment then was a two-LNB set up receiving Nilesat and Hotbird on one dish. At the time, I was not very familiar with dish sizes but in hindsight it probably was a 1.8. You might get joy if you ask a local installer to add an LNB to the current set up for Hotbird. (Edited: assuming your current dish is of an adequate size)

I think 19e (Astra 1) will be rather difficult though I do know someone who receives some of Astra 2/EB1 (28e) on a gianormous dish.

I hope that you liked it here.

The dish size of the ART(Arabesque? Nilesat...) default installation is very small, maybe 80 cm or so, so I do not really think that it is an option. I do not mind installing a new fixed one for hot bird. However, after a quick survey there seems to be a lack of interesting cultural and informational channels on it apart from news channels.

I will probably head to a local provider tomorrow and ask about the price of a 120 cm and a 180 cm dishes and will ask him/her about the satellites that those two dishes can receive. I did not directly go for that route because one is often confronted with ignorant technicians, so I have to have some knowledge in order to be able to know for sure whether it will be a good investment or not.

I do think so as well, it just was an idea after taking a look at channel lists. I have a friend with a motorized big dish, I will ask him to let me check the channels that he receives on his installation and will get a similar one if I find anything that's interesting.

Originally Posted by Analoguesat

No problem GenericN - we are happy to advise on sensible questions. Be aware that footprint maps are indicative only - many satellites can be received much further away with big dishes.

Thanks for the tip! I have to admit that I can't help being impressed at how helpful you all are.

**Topper** · 10-09-2008

I suggest you have alook at this thread if you want to see what you can do with multiple lnb's

Pictures of Members' Systems

**HB13DISH** · 10-09-2008

Hello GenericN,

I think that your best choice is installing a dish for Hot Bird 13E.
I use 1.6m and it gives me an all year excellent signal, but you might go for 1.8m if this is permissible.
I wouldn't touch the dish for Nilesat 7W, but perhaps add the possibilty to get Amos 4W. There are few FTA channels that you might find useful.
With Hot Bird, you won't get many interesting FTA channels, but there are few German channels like ZDF or ARD which have excellent quality and would help you with the German language.
You need another good receiver with CI CAM, just in case you want to buy a subscription to the best package with German speaking i.e. SRG (the Swiss Package).
It is very difficult to buy a subscription, but if you try hard enough, you might succeed.
If you have any Swiss friends, you can ask them to order the cards for themselves as this is possible outside Switzerland. Not like Sky UK.
Another satellite with a lot of German channels is Astra 19.2E, but you need a really large dish. I doubt if 2.4m would catch many channels, but might be worth the effort.
Hope that this helps you a bit.

GenericN · 10-09-2008

Originally Posted by HB13DISH

Hello GenericN,

I think that your best choice is installing a dish for Hot Bird 13E.
I use 1.6m and it gives me an all year excellent signal, but you might go for 1.8m if this is permissible.
I wouldn't touch the dish for Nilesat 7W, but perhaps add the possibilty to get Amos 4W. There are few FTA channels that you might find useful.
With Hot Bird, you won't get many interesting FTA channels, but there are few German channels like ZDF or ARD which have excellent quality and would help you with the German language.
You need another good receiver with CI CAM, just in case you want to buy a subscription to the best package with German speaking i.e. SRG (the Swiss Package).
It is very difficult to buy a subscription, but if you try hard enough, you might succeed.
If you have any Swiss friends, you can ask them to order the cards for themselves as this is possible outside Switzerland. Not like Sky UK.
Another satellite with a lot of German channels is Astra 19.2E, but you need a really large dish. I doubt if 2.4m would catch many channels, but might be worth the effort.
Hope that this helps you a bit.

Hello HB13DISH,

Thanks for helping, I am glad for having someone in proximity confirm their results to me.

The best solution seems to be getting a 1.8m fixed dish aimed at HotBird with a good receiver. I do not currently know any Swiss expats living here, but I will make sure to ask when I meet one.

That's great, as DW-TV Arabia is becoming a bit of a joke.

I will ask around, and if I find a motorized 2.4m one that doesn't cost more than $400-$500 then I will go for it instead. I will go to a local provider when I have some free time, it's a medium-priority task on my schedule now. I may have a working set-up in a couple of months or so if no unseen circumstances arise, if it's working well then I will try to post a picture.

I don't really want to touch the Nilesat one because I do not want it to be interpreted as piracy by the local authorities, piracy is widespread here, but I do not want to be mistaken for an advocate of it. It's all $6 anyway - excluding the extra couple of dollars for the Animal Planet.

Another receiver will be a must, this one is indeed locked to their service. You always need to go to one of the channels you're subscribed to before being able to watch any of the FTA channels.

Amos sounds like a satellite with some Hebrew channels, I do not understand Hebrew. It's one of those things that one always wanted to learn but never got around to it, I will try ordering a couple of ,Amazon Hebrew textbooks when I have some time, that's a promise.

I am also not that interested in listening to Arabic, it's always around and most of the shows are either too partisan, too simple-minded, too full-of-useless-trash, or too plagiarized to be enjoyed. I am not an Eurovision/Champions League/Hollywood kind of guy, I am more into documentaries or anything delving into the fascinating wonders of other cultures, that's why I was having a hard time making up my mind.

Thanks again for your help and for your time! I now know more than what I needed, and that's a good thing.

P.S. Some of those installations look wonderful, I wonder how some of those people managed to transport those enormous dishes to their yards, it's like they're searching for intelligent life in the outer space.

**HB13DISH** · 10-09-2008

Hello again GenericN,
I am really glad to be of help and look forward to hear about your experience once you have a 2.m dish installed.
Forgot to mention that there is a great channel on Hot Bird 13E called Arte with German and French audio, lots of documentaries and intellectual programming. I am sure that you will like it.
Some of the films are really good, especially when they send it in the original language option.
Amos FTA channels are really not that interesting. The ads rate is just too much, but you are welcome to add it on the Nilesat dish. Probably need just another LNB.
The Swiss package details here might give you some more info.
In short, there are six excellent quality channels (video and audio quality)
Also one HD channel.
It is possible to buy a card if you are really interested.
If you can install a 2.4m, then you will not regret it. I wish I can, but I have limitations here.
Regarding receivers, don't buy anything that is not reputable, and especially not FTA one.
The popular ones in the UK should be the ones to order. Just make sure it will support Viaccess, Irdeto, Nagravision, Seca and any othe encryption systems.
There are many national packages on Hot Bird 13E and you might find a package that has several interesting channels which can make buying a subscription worth it.
Good luck with the installation.

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N00b in Cairo - A few questions Information exchange on LNBs, Single satellite, motorised and multi-satellite systems. DiSEqC switches, positioners, motors, actuators, dish-alignment etc.

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