battle of the motors, diseqc, h-h 36v and actuators

mukka · 18-05-2009

Trying to find out which motor to have on a 85cm dish in exposed location on chimney stack.
Looking for reliable, easy to set up, simple and works. Nothing too noisy.
all views appreciated i just want to get it right first time.

**HB13DISH** · 18-05-2009

Originally Posted by mukka

Trying to find out which motor to have on a 85cm dish in exposed location on chimney stack.
Looking for reliable, easy to set up, simple and works. Nothing too noisy.
all views appreciated i just want to get it right first time.

Plenty of info in here
http://www.satellites.co.uk/satellit...rised-systems/

http://www.satellites.co.uk/satellit...pictorial.html

Moteck motor seems to be quite popular, exposed location might be a problem.
Can you move it somewhere else?

**Robbo** · 18-05-2009

Not sure its such a good idea to put an 85cm on a Chimney stack to be honest.

mukka · 18-05-2009

has to go there if i want to see west, dont worry about structure im an engineer and its i my genetic code to over engineer everything so by the time im finished youll be able to put jodrel bank up there.
just worried about this absolute vertical pole needed for a diseqc, is there any tolerance in it

***Huevos*** · 18-05-2009

Originally Posted by Robbo

Not sure its such a good idea to put an 85cm on a Chimney stack to be honest.

Why do you say that Robbo? I've had an 80cm dish up on a chimney for eight years just by a "U" bracket that was held on by four 8mm bolts into giant rawlplugs. It didn't even have a lashing kit but survived the storms in January (worst winds in more than 10 years... over 90mph with lots of buildings down just up the road). But that wasn't motorised so maybe you are worried about the survival of the motor.

Mukka, your main problem is going to be getting the pole plumb. Maybe use a heavy duty lashing kit and put the motor between the bracket's two U-bolts rather than above or below. I would only use an aluminium dish on a diseqc motor so there is less weight to lift going from the horizon towards the centre of the arc. Also you could use a piece of left-over steel cable from the lashing kit bridged between the dish and the mast so that if/when the motor stub becomes detached from the motor the dish can't fall and kill someone.

Originally Posted by mukka

just worried about this absolute vertical pole needed for a diseqc, is there any tolerance in it

Aim to get it perfect. If it is out east/west you are in big trouble, but if it is out north/south you can compensate using the motor elevation.

***wod*** · 18-05-2009

if your going to put a dish up there then go with a polar mount + actuator motor than a diseqc motor

polar mount has much better fixing to the dish and stronger in gusty winds

i wouldn't change mine for any diseqc motor

**satelliteman** · 18-05-2009

Varying factors are: type of dish (steel or Aluminium), very exposed location, where you mount on chimney stack, what fixings ie. (lashing bracket/kit) you use, motor itself etc...

mukka · 18-05-2009

with an actuator and polar mount are there any receivers that will control it or will i need another box to control the dish, how easy are they to set up

**satelliteman** · 18-05-2009

Limited receivers with 36v positioning. An inline Vbox positioner will be just the ticket.

***wod*** · 18-05-2009

vbox are easy to use with any receiver by using diseqc 1.2 positioning

***Huevos*** · 18-05-2009

Wod, don't you think a 36 volt system is overkill for an 80 cm dish? 36 volt is so much more agro to set up, needs the extra control cable and doesn't have USALS so each satellite position has to be programmed in individually.

***wod*** · 18-05-2009

erm yes i must read these threads properly in future

my dish is only 90cm but i went 36v as going 1.2 in future

as long as the op reinforces the chimney with some support or something the dish should be fine up there.

**Channel Hopper** · 19-05-2009

Originally Posted by Huevos

36 volt is so much more agro to set up, .

What is Greek for b*llocks ?

***Huevos*** · 19-05-2009

Originally Posted by Channel Hopper

What is Greek for b*llocks ?

Each to their own mate. I have both here and for me just entering my coordinates (USALS, about 1 minute's work) was a lot easier than locating and manually entering the positions of 56 satellites (several hour's work).

**Channel Hopper** · 19-05-2009

You claimed 'much more agro', which may work out more expensive if this was an installer called in to do the job, but an enthiusiast doing it himself could use that additional time of programming to get used to the systems advantages and pitfalls. DiSEqC is also not perfect for finding new satellites, it is easier to count off the counts of a standard motor to get the location correct before scanning for frequencies.

And in my experience a proper set up polarmount will still be on the wall and operational in ten years time, which equates to about four good DiSEqC motors (or eight cheapos)

**Llew** · 19-05-2009

Originally Posted by Channel Hopper

And in my experience a proper set up polarmount will still be on the wall and operational in ten years time, which equates to about four good DiSEqC motors (or eight cheapos)

Only ten

My pole mounted install should be good for 20 plus - no signs of wear here, coming up to 17 now

All hail to SMW engineering

Llew

***Huevos*** · 19-05-2009

Originally Posted by Channel Hopper

DiSEqC is also not perfect for finding new satellites

Dude, a USALS motor goes wherever the receiver sends it, if you have trouble locating a "new satellite" that is a problem with the box, not the motor.

Originally Posted by Channel Hopper

an enthiusiast doing it himself could use that additional time of programming to get used to the systems advantages and pitfalls

All he is going to "get used to" is wasting time finding and saving satellite locations that a USALS motor would have automatically driven the dish to. Learning about the "systems advantages and pitfalls" will be the same in both cases.

Originally Posted by Channel Hopper

it is easier to count off the counts of a standard motor to get the location correct before scanning for

Maybe you can do that (almost) with a Jaegar 1224 but you can't do that with an actuator as there is not a linear relationship between the distance the ram is opened and the number of degrees moved.

**Llew** · 19-05-2009

Originally Posted by Huevos

Maybe you can do that (almost) with a Jaegar 1224 but you can't do that with an actuator as there is not a linear relationship between the distance the ram is opened and the number of degrees moved.

As can be shown here on my Echostar positioner arc display.
The two vertical lines on the left represent 53E and 45E - a difference of eight degrees. The two on the right (45W and 58W) are only five degrees more, but need many more pulse counts to move from one satellite to the other.

Llew

**Robbo** · 19-05-2009

A USALS system is quicker/easier to FULLY set up than a Diseqc1.2 or 36V system full stop!

But this is irrelevant really, as the OP wants to get it right first time, which means an installation that would take a beating, such as the polar mount actuator route, as per llews example.

***Huevos*** · 19-05-2009

Robbo, how old is the motor on your TD110? Is CH right about the life of these motors if they are turning a sensible size dish.

**HB13DISH** · 19-05-2009

Originally Posted by mukka

has to go there if i want to see west, dont worry about structure im an engineer and its i my genetic code to over engineer everything so by the time im finished youll be able to put jodrel bank up there.
just worried about this absolute vertical pole needed for a diseqc, is there any tolerance in it

I would consider a fixed dish by the chimney pointed west and another one motorized in a sheltered area for the rest.
Might come out cheaper in the end.
Just thinking of a flying dish in winter makes me shudder, even on a hot day like today in the Middle East.

**satelliteman** · 19-05-2009

Originally Posted by Huevos

Robbo, how old is the motor on your TD110? Is CH right about the life of these motors if they are turning a sensible size dish.

I've had two HH DiSEqC motors so far out of the box that didn't even move, and seen a few wear beyond repair within a few years (stab).

**Robbo** · 19-05-2009

My current motor is new, the old one, a STAB HH-90 was alomost 3 yrs old. It didn't wear out though, it was just a little too small for the TD110 above the roof line.

**Channel Hopper** · 19-05-2009

Originally Posted by Huevos

Dude, a USALS motor goes wherever the receiver sends it, if you have trouble locating a "new satellite" that is a problem with the box, not the motor.

A number of USALs motors out there will not track down to the horizon, nor will they track correctly owing to the weight of the dish pulling the whole mount off the arc.

Additionally a USALS motor has its basis on DiSEqC which is known to have tolerance in tracking movement. They are definitely an improvement on the earlier designs ( I was pleasantly surprised by the last one I installed last month) but there is still more that needs to be done to eliminate the backlash / gear wear, to bring them into the same league as the common polarmount designs.

mukka · 19-05-2009

cheers all, think i may have opened a can of worms.
so am i getting this, usuals will be easier to set up, but ill be up on the roof every two years to replace the motor, and the dish may fall off
actuator and polar mount harder to set up but will last forever, but needs a separate control box and a few hours searching out the satellites. But dish will stay put
Seen the jaeger bit overkill i think, may be just the ticket but im trying to keep this as low key as possible so ill rule that out.
Are there any receivers that will control the actuator so i dont need a vbox,
Is there more tolerance in vertical pole with a polar mount and actuator.
And how complicated is this setting up off the actuator

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battle of the motors, diseqc, h-h 36v and actuators Information exchange on LNBs, Single satellite, motorised and multi-satellite systems. DiSEqC switches, positioners, motors, actuators, dish-alignment etc.