Satellite Advice (dish position in particular)

dannylaaa · 01-08-2009

Hi all, couldn't find a place to make an introduction so decided I'd just wade in with my questions and hope someone who has been in my position can give some advice.

I currently have nothing in terms of equipment apart from a TV and a couch. My main intention is to get whatever option will allow me to watch as much footy as I can.

After looking around various forums I'm leaning towards a motorised system and I'd like the best receiver I can manage (future proof - 2 years without replacing), ideally for under £500.

The back of my house is predominantly west facing but with the shape of the building there is a south-facing wall which I think would be a reasonably inconspicuous and sheltered place to fit the dish.

Due to me living in a terraced house though my neighbour has a similar wall protuding from their house - only around 2.5m - 3m away. I'm not confident with that proximity that the distance/line of sight needed to view satellites would be sufficient ... I have no clue whatsoever about angles/elevation but looking at the row of terraces running away from the back of my property they have little Sky dishes apparently directed into the upstairs windows of the houses across from them - probably 10m away - they don't appear to be clearing the rooftops in any case.

Can anyone advise if it would be possible to mount a dish (as high up the wall as I can manage) or is this a non-starter?

Failing that I have a small chimney breast at the back which is set back another 2.5m from the neighbours which wouldn't be as 'cramped', although on the left it would be turning into the slope of my roof if motorised.

I'll be gutted if it's a no on both counts - my next door neighbour has a Sky dish bolted to the front of their house. I don't really want a dish slapped on the front of my house (the missus wouldn't be impressed) and from what I've read I'd need to go above 80cm to make it worth my time.

Sorry the question is a little vague - if you need any further information then please ask and I'll try to provide it.

Thanks, Dan

**satelliteman** · 01-08-2009

Hi, why not post and attach a few pictures so we can advise you regarding the dish mounting position.
Consider the FR Penta 85cm dish, good all rounder.

**Robbo** · 01-08-2009

You need to make sure that the dish can 'see' over any obstacles.

The satellites appear as an arc, the top of which is about 29 degrees for your due south, falling to approx 16 degrees at 45 degrees either side.

Looky here:-

_http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=the+satellite+arc&btnG=Google+Searc h&meta=&aq=f&oq=

**Topper** · 01-08-2009

Also take note that the angle of incidence on an offset dish is completely different than with a prime focus dish the offset is shown in the piccy

dannylaaa · 01-08-2009

Gents, thanks for the advice so far - the offset comment by Topper has given me some hope!

I've taken a few pics - I hope I haven't messed up attaching them. If you wouldn't mind taking a look and judging whether you think I can get away with it then I can start with the process of deciding what setup I need to go for.

Cheers, Dan

***wod*** · 01-08-2009

chimney installs are not advised as they aren't strong enough to mount anything larger then a sky minidish

a more stronger solution would be to mount the dish on the back wall on t&k brackets so it can look over the roof if the pitch of it is not too high

**satelliteman** · 01-08-2009

12 inch TK/pole fixing on rear/side of property would be a nice job.

dannylaaa · 01-08-2009

Thanks wod, so you don't think I could squeeze it in my preferred position?(the red spot on the attached image)

It is about 3 metres to the neighbours extension and I'd say it's about 3.5 metres away from the main part of my house to that corner of the building. I understand the pitch of the roof might get in the way ... If I was to guess the angle of pitch on my roof I'd say it is around 30-35 degree angle.

As for the back yard - it's very small and I think too crowded by all of the other terraces squashed around me. I live on one of the main roads in the neighbourhood which has all the other smaller roads running perpendicular to it - obscuring most of my view from ground level to the south.

**satelliteman** · 01-08-2009

Mounting as far back as possible to the rear of the property would be best, see image

dannylaaa · 01-08-2009

Thanks satelliteman, I didn't really consider that because I thought it'd take a beating from the wind in that position.

What is the maximum size dish that the T/K pole can take? I was considering a 1m dish because from what I've read it might improve the reception to the North West of England. Is the FR Penta 85cm dish you mentioned sufficient for my location?

***wod*** · 01-08-2009

i would agree with satelliteman as the chinmey is quite close best to mount the dish in the other position

**satelliteman** · 01-08-2009

Originally Posted by dannylaaa

Thanks satelliteman, I didn't really consider that because I thought it'd take a beating from the wind in that position.

What is the maximum size dish that the T/K pole can take? I was considering a 1m dish because from what I've read it might improve the reception to the North West of England. Is the FR Penta 85cm dish you mentioned sufficient for my location?

The FR penta85 should do well, lots of info in this section.

Galvanised TK and a strong scaffold mast required

dannylaaa · 01-08-2009

Thanks again satelliteman, I'm now looking for a penta85.

Out of interest though, other than possibly increasing the signal quality of some satellites would a 1m dish actually give me a wider selection of satellites/channels (footy) than an 85cm dish?

Based on my location:

Latitude: 53.4267°
Longitude: -2.9295°

Can you advise which satellites might of most interest to me or point me to somehwere on the web where I can see what size dish I would need to get to specific satellites. I've heard about something called Nilesat which apparently has loads of footy - what would I need to grab this?

Cheers.

**Mickha** · 01-08-2009

Check out lyngsat.com and kingofsat.net.
I think you're talking about showtime, 7W, but you will need a very large dish for some of those channels, try a forum search, for showtime, as this has been discussed before.

**satelliteman** · 02-08-2009

Originally Posted by dannylaaa

Thanks again satelliteman, I'm now looking for a penta85.

Out of interest though, other than possibly increasing the signal quality of some satellites would a 1m dish actually give me a wider selection of satellites/channels (footy) than an 85cm dish?

Based on my location:

Latitude: 53.4267°
Longitude: -2.9295°

Can you advise which satellites might of most interest to me or point me to somehwere on the web where I can see what size dish I would need to get to specific satellites. I've heard about something called Nilesat which apparently has loads of footy - what would I need to grab this?

Cheers.

The FR penta should perform as good as some 1Mtr dishes but a high quality 100cm will perform marginally better.

Forget showtime (nilesat), not possible without a large dish, as said try a forum search, all explained.

dannylaaa · 02-08-2009

Thanks again gents, I've had a little look around the forum and it seems someone had some success on the Wirral with a 2.4m dish ... no way am I going down that route.

It seems I'll have enough to choose from if I can only get a couple of satellites based on that Kingofsat website.

Is £50 good for a penta85? What kind of motor would be best to drive this?

It looks like I'll be scrounging around Ebay

unless anyone can recommend a particularly cheap dealer.

With regards to a receiver I've heard good noises about something called an Azbox and another called a Dreambox - from what I can see the Azbox is way cheaper but doesn't seem to have much of a following. Like I said, I'd like a setup that is in someway future proof.

Does anyone have any other suggestions of a receiver with a PVR? HD would be a bonus.

Sorry for blitzing you with so many questions but there seem to be too many options and I'll bow to your experience if you think I'm looking for the wrong kind of equipment.

**Mickha** · 02-08-2009

Both the AZ HD Boxes, and the Dreamboxes, are Linux based receivers and take time to learn how to use them.
The AZ Box is very new, the official firmware hasn't even been released yet, so it's still in the development stage but seems very close to completion.
You can get a cheap, non HD, Dreambox to learn on, or even a dreambox clone.

LoMax · 02-08-2009

I bought my Penta 85 from one of the forum sponsers on here. Their the same crew who sell of Ebay

but cheaper if you go direct to their website. You can find the link here http://www.satellites.co.uk/default.php?page=sponsors

**satelliteman** · 02-08-2009

Originally Posted by dannylaaa

Is £50 good for a penta85? What kind of motor would be best to drive this?

The fracarro Penta is a high quality dish. Moteck/TM are popular and included in most package deals.

dannylaaa · 23-08-2009

As per the sound advice provided by satelliteman and a few others on the forum I've gotten around to putting my dish up.

Here's the kit I got bundled for a decent price:

1m Orbital aluminium dish
0.1db Icecrypt LNB
TM2600 super motor
AZBox Premium receiver

I've attached a couple of pictures of the job now it's done - very happy with the vertical of the pole mount as I was cringing at the though of getting that exactly right.

Now I'd appreciate some advice on a couple of things that I stupidly rushed through (due to possible rain and the onset of dusk).

Like a plonker I didn't test the motors motion when I had it on the ground - after getting it all hoisted up I was shattered so left it for the night. To my dismay this morning I've found that the motor doesn't seem to be taking any power from the receiver.

Today it's been raining on and off but I had a quick go up the ladder to press the manual button on the bottom of the motor - I cannot see any LED illuminated and the motor is not responding. It's probably a cabling issue but I was so sure the connection was secure and I wrapped it off with amalgamating tape to protect it.

Does anyone have any alternate theories or am I doomed to having to take the dish and motor back down?

The other question I had was about the elevation and the best way to achieve this. I determined the degree of elevation I needed was 28.9 and I set this up on the motor itself but the bracket that attaches the motor to the dish also has a way of setting an angle of elevation (for fixed dishes I guess) - I locked the bolts on this without setting any form of elevation but now that the dish is on the pole it seems to have a very low angle against what I was expecting.

Any suggestions about what actions I take from here to get it up and running would be appreciated.

***Tivù*** · 23-08-2009

Originally Posted by dannylaaa

The other question I had was about the elevation and the best way to achieve this. I determined the degree of elevation I needed was 28.9 and I set this up on the motor itself but the bracket that attaches the motor to the dish also has a way of setting an angle of elevation (for fixed dishes I guess) - I locked the bolts on this without setting any form of elevation but now that the dish is on the pole it seems to have a very low angle against what I was expecting.

Any suggestions about what actions I take from here to get it up and running would be appreciated.

Both those "Elevation" scales are vital ............

1. The Motor: You'll find that the other side of the Motor Bracket is marked Latitude. Set it to yours (Around 54 North , I guess) - this is equivalent to 36 on the related elevation Scale. Once set, DO NOT ALTER IT!!

2. The Dish Bracket: As you are similar Latitude to me, you'll find that setting this to around 25 is a good starting point for alignment and you will almost certainly have to alter it.

I suggest you have a look (another one ?!) at the guides linked in Post #19

**satelliteman** · 23-08-2009

Yep, Motor inclination set to 53° on Latitude scale not elevation. On paper after taking off the declination, the dish elevation needs to be around 22° but dish elevation markings are certainly not accurate enough to work with. Set the dish facing slightly up from vertical as a starting point.

Having a longitude somewhere in the 3West region, you'll need to drive the dish to the calculated position of a reference satellite prior to alignment, this will be either 1W or 5W, (explained in the guides).

dannylaaa · 25-08-2009

Thanks again for the guidance guys - I've slid the dish/motor back down the mount to a height I can safely adjust it and set the latitude and elevation as instructed.

I haven't set it about to face due south again though because the problems with the motor persist. I've attached another piece of coax to the receiver but I'm still not seeing any LED on the motor. Has anyone faced a similar problem with a Technomate 2600 Super or with an AZBox Premium? Is there any test I can perform to prove that it is the fault of one or the other - I think I've knocked coax out of the equation.

**satelliteman** · 25-08-2009

Be sure that the inner core of the cable on the F connector is long enough to make contact on the motor and receiver connections. Also check that LNb power is enabled on the receiver.

dannylaaa · 25-08-2009

Based on a diagram I've seen I've got around 7mm of coax exposed through the F-connector. Is this normally enough? The second coax I used was pre-made, only 1.5m long but it seems to have the same amount of coax showing as the connections I made.

I'll check the receiver again to check if I can make LNb power on the default setting but on the primary satellite I've been trying to focus on (0.8W Thor) it is specifically set to 'on'.

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Satellite Advice (dish position in particular) Information exchange on LNBs, Single satellite, motorised and multi-satellite systems. DiSEqC switches, positioners, motors, actuators, dish-alignment etc.