Fibo Dish Problem

AndyX · 11-12-2007

Help
my Fibo dish, operated by a Technomate 5000ADip has taken to suddenly turning as far west as it can go without me being able to stop it. It is doing this aoccassionally while I am focusing in on a satellite.

Any ideas what is going on?

I have checked the connections

***CROSSBONES*** · 12-12-2007

Have you a different receiver you could try the dish on?

Maybe its a fault with the technomate?

**RedDevil_UK** · 12-12-2007

How windy is it?

sorry

have you changed any setting on the box recently? have you tried unplugging the box for 10 mins... might be a sofware fault.

AndyX · 12-12-2007

There is no wind problem. The receiver has been off over night.I also have tried a factory reset. Unfortunetly things have got worse. After the last lurch to the west the motor now shows no signs of life. The Technomate clicks as per normal when it tries to move the dish. I checked in side the receiver for any obvious damage such as blown capacitors.

i am getting a Technomate Vbox 5 volt for Christmas, so if it is the receiver, I will be able to check the possibility for the receiver being at fault.

I don't know if there is any sort of circuit breaker on the Fibo motor should the dish be pushed to the west limit by a fault on the receiver. A diagram may be handy. Otherwise it may be difficult to replace the motor with the manufacturer ceased trading.

Thanks for your suggestions guys

***johnsattuk*** · 12-12-2007

Originally Posted by AndyX

i am getting a Technomate Vbox 5 volt for Christmas, so if it is the receiver, I will be able to check the possibility for the receiver being at fault.

I don't know if there is any sort of circuit breaker on the Fibo motor should the dish be pushed to the west limit by a fault on the receiver. A diagram may be handy. Otherwise it may be difficult to replace the motor with the manufacturer ceased trading.

Thanks for your suggestions guys

As said before, one of the main concerns with the Fibo mount is the lack of any hardware limit switches.

If there is a fault with the receiver or an accidental overdrive, it does over stress the motor, often damaging the pinion and/or the drive pin. There is no O/L mechanism on the motor.

One or two of us do have some spares around, when you find out what the problem is. You will probably need to take the motor off the mount to investigate. be aware that with the motor removed, the dish is free to flap about and damage you or itself.

There are also motor mods that use a reed sw. so that you don't need the 5v , which is becoming harder to source.

AndyX · 14-12-2007

An update: I found my old Echostar AD2000ip and connected everything up. The receiver attempted to drive the dish but there is not a peep outside from the motor. I guess the next stage is to dismantle the dish and check the motor visually for damage. My father is an ex telecoms engineer who is good with electrical things so I might take it over to him to look at. If it is not repairable I might have to use my old channel master 1.2 dish, sitting in my shed thus leaving, sadly, the Fibo owners club.

***wod*** · 15-12-2007

no you could fit a jaeger 1224 motor to the fibo dish to replace the current motor if that is broken

***johnsattuk*** · 15-12-2007

Originally Posted by wod

no you could fit a jaeger 1224 motor to the fibo dish to replace the current motor if that is broken

If you can make/get made suitable bracketry, you could use a 'jack' to drive the dish on its existing mount. The reinforcing ring on the back of the dish is quite substantial enough to accept a bracket at the right sort of radius.

I do have spare Fibo motors.

***CROSSBONES*** · 15-12-2007

or take a look at the alternative motor set up`s, you could mod your c/master polar mount quite easy to fit your fibo

Fibo Gregorian - alternative motor setups

**Snuffer** · 15-12-2007

Andy X

I have never see a Fibo motor that not can be repair.

All and i meen ALL parts are on the market for it the motor are also complete to buy and a inside motor is also for sale at the orginal company that make then for Fibo-Stop in Holland.
Perhaps a idea to make:

2 micro switches 1 on East and 1 on West zo he can not break te glog.
simple to make the 36 Volt line + and - first to the micro and then to the motor.
use a smal Ampere meter down at the reciever to see the Ampere that the motor use when turns if this change there is a problem and you see always of there is a problem with the reciever, wire or motor.
Tip the ampere mter can be replaced by some leds and resitirs red and green.

With this system you have a complete control on all things happens.

My last idea are a small magnetic(electrical) that when no works when no power is to the motor to push a metalpin in a hole so the system are lockted.

P.s. sorry for my bad English

AndyX · 15-12-2007

thanks for all your help: I am going to take the motor to my father next week and see if we can see what is gone and if we have the know-how between us. If unsuccessful, then plan B would be a the Jaeger suggested. From some of the images on this forum, it does not too complicated, just some holes drilled in the 2 brackets attached to the dish. I have always fancied an inclined motor option!

Does anybody know if it is possible to extract the motor without taking down the dish? I see there is a bolt underneath the motor.

AndyX · 15-12-2007

Originally Posted by johnsattuk

If you can make/get made suitable bracketry, you could use a 'jack' to drive the dish on its existing mount. The reinforcing ring on the back of the dish is quite substantial enough to accept a bracket at the right sort of radius.

I do have spare Fibo motors.

I might come back to for a price if that is all right

thanks

**Snuffer** · 15-12-2007

Andy if you can not repear it i will plaese buy it from you we repair and help Fibo users with it, or repair for you.

Ron

***johnsattuk*** · 15-12-2007

Originally Posted by AndyX

I have always fancied an inclined motor option!

Does anybody know if it is possible to extract the motor without taking down the dish? I see there is a bolt underneath the motor.

Not sure what you mean by inclined 'motor'

The axis that the dish rotates on is the inclination that controls how the dish tracks the arc, and the 'Fibo' certainly has an inclined axis. Where and how the motor is mounted will depend on the design of the gearbox etc, but wherever it ends up it does not affect the tracking of the dish.

The motor comes off quite easily, 4 x 8mm a/f pins, and should then just pull out easily. As mentioned before, once you remove the motor, the dish is free to flap about and knock you off your perch, I always tie it back to somthing first

If the motor has been overdriven, It may have bent the dowel pin which drives the delrin pinion and possibly damaged the pinion as well. This can sometimes make the motor more difficult to remove as it gets jammed in the housing.

AndyX · 15-12-2007

Originally Posted by johnsattuk

Not sure what you mean by inclined 'motor'

The axis that the dish rotates on is the inclination that controls how the dish tracks the arc, and the 'Fibo' certainly has an inclined axis. Where and how the motor is mounted will depend on the design of the gearbox etc, but wherever it ends up it does not affect the tracking of the dish.

The motor comes off quite easily, 4 x 8mm a/f pins, and should then just pull out easily. As mentioned before, once you remove the motor, the dish is free to flap about and knock you off your perch, I always tie it back to somthing first

If the motor has been overdriven, It may have bent the dowel pin which drives the delrin pinion and possibly damaged the pinion as well. This can sometimes make the motor more difficult to remove as it gets jammed in the housing.

sorry johnsattuk, what I meant by inclined really meant the optional additional motor on the Jaeger for inclined orbit satellite s (I am into feed hunting). Anyway, that is if I give up on the Fibo motor.

Now the 4 x 8mm a/f pins you mentioned: I can't see them at the lower end of the mount so I presume they are hidden under the fan shaped top of the mount, this being the 1.2m version and not exposed as in the .9m version, so I presume I will have to take this section off first to access the a/f pins. I suspect I may have to dismantle the dish to access these a/f pins. Fortunately I have a ground mount in the garden and will be able to get help to lift the dish off the pole. With the short days, I will have to wait until I have a day off work now so I can see what I am doing. It will give me time to gather information from experts like yourself so I will know what I am doing

***johnsattuk*** · 15-12-2007

Originally Posted by AndyX

sorry johnsattuk, what I meant by inclined really meant the optional additional motor on the Jaeger for inclined orbit satellite s (I am into feed hunting). Anyway, that is if I give up on the Fibo motor.

Now the 4 x 8mm a/f pins you mentioned: I can't see them at the lower end of the mount so I presume they are hidden under the fan shaped top of the mount, this being the 1.2m version and not exposed as in the .9m version, so I presume I will have to take this section off first to access the a/f pins. I suspect I may have to dismantle the dish to access these a/f pins. Fortunately I have a ground mount in the garden and will be able to get help to lift the dish off the pole. With the short days, I will have to wait until I have a day off work now so I can see what I am doing. It will give me time to gather information from experts like yourself so I will know what I am doing

Argh 'inclined orbit' sorry about that

The pins for the motor (4 off) are quite accessible, no need to dismantle anything to get at them.

***johnsattuk*** · 15-12-2007

Originally Posted by johnsattuk

The pins for the motor (4 off) are quite accessible, no need to dismantle anything to get at them.

Having a senior moment day

On the 120cm you do need to lift the dish of the mount, there is a retaining pin with a retaining plate. If you loosen the pin and it is the origional retaining plate, it will unclip and allow you to lift off the dish.

AndyX · 24-12-2007

Originally Posted by johnsattuk

Having a senior moment day

On the 120cm you do need to lift the dish of the mount, there is a retaining pin with a retaining plate. If you loosen the pin and it is the origional retaining plate, it will unclip and allow you to lift off the dish.

Hi John

thanks for your help so far. I have finally managed to look at the dish. I got help to remove the dish and found a bolt underneath going into the pivot and through a small plate. I have removed this pin, bolt & plate. I assume the fan shaped cover section should now lift of. I pulled upwards and did indeed get a slight movement. Unfortunately it will not budge any further. Am I doing the right thing, as I do not want to do damage by forcing the cover off? Could the motor be jammed?

Anyway, I guess I better get ready for the big day tomorrow.

Happy Christmas to the Fibo owners club

***johnsattuk*** · 24-12-2007

Originally Posted by AndyX

Hi John

thanks for your help so far. I have finally managed to look at the dish. I got help to remove the dish and found a bolt underneath going into the pivot and through a small plate. I have removed this pin, bolt & plate. I assume the fan shaped cover section should now lift of. I pulled upwards and did indeed get a slight movement. Unfortunately it will not budge any further. Am I doing the right thing, as I do not want to do damage by forcing the cover off? Could the motor be jammed?

Anyway, I guess I better get ready for the big day tomorrow.

Happy Christmas to the Fibo owners club

It does just lift off, however it is a short (approx. 70mm) stepped shaft about 60dia at the lower end, and needs to be pulled off squarely, much easier to achieve without the dish mounted. You may need to pry gently with a couple of bars

To complicate things, the bottom part of the shaft has a thin plastic shim/bearing ( about 0.12mm thk.) glued to it. I think this is to prevent the alu. shaft picking up on the alu. housing. Unfortunately this nearly always comes adrift and can then interfere with withdrawing the shaft. The other thing which can cause tightness is if the motor pinion has been damaged and is jammed against the gearquadrant, also if water has got in and corroded the shaft/bearing.

I have used scotch 'magic' tape on occasion to replace the plastic, you have to be careful not to use too much, else reassembly will displace it.

Taken a few pics, hope of some use.

AndyX · 25-12-2007

Originally Posted by johnsattuk

It does just lift off, however it is a short (approx. 70mm) stepped shaft about 60dia at the lower end, and needs to be pulled off squarely, much easier to achieve without the dish mounted. You may need to pry gently with a couple of bars

To complicate things, the bottom part of the shaft has a thin plastic shim/bearing ( about 0.12mm thk.) glued to it. I think this is to prevent the alu. shaft picking up on the alu. housing. Unfortunately this nearly always comes adrift and can then interfere with withdrawing the shaft. The other thing which can cause tightness is if the motor pinion has been damaged and is jammed against the gearquadrant, also if water has got in and corroded the shaft/bearing.

I have used scotch 'magic' tape on occasion to replace the plastic, you have to be careful not to use too much, else reassembly will displace it.

Taken a few pics, hope of some use.

thanks for the pics. They gave me confidence in removing the top. I have extracted the motor and brought it indoors. My intention is to try attaching the motor by a short length of 5 core to the Echostar, which I know works and see if the motor still shows signs of life. If it is dead I guess I will have to open the motor up an look for any damage. My concern is what caused the dish to shoot west to begin with. I would be fine adjusting a the dish to a satellite and then the dish would suddenly take of to the west, never the east. Switching the receiver off stopped the motor but switching the receiver back on allowed the dish to continue its lunge west.I am hoping it may be a reciver fault.I am not sure what to do next if these plans do not work, but if I can't get it going I do have my new remote controlled Dalek to play with

***johnsattuk*** · 25-12-2007

The symptons do sound more like a reciever fault.

AndyX · 26-12-2007

Originally Posted by johnsattuk

The symptons do sound more like a reciever fault.

....this is why I have brought my old Echostar into service to make sure I am using a reliable receiver. I have connected all the wires except the 5 volt and I tried moving the motor now out of it's shell. I got a little bit of life out of the motor before it stopped again. By gently pushing the larger metal wheel while pressing the west- east buttons,I was able to coax it to move again slightly. It only wants to move one way for a couple of seconds. Moving the wheel does turn all the cogs and turns the external gog that drives the dish. There is no obvious sign of damage.

This establishes:
the motor is working....a little bit
there is no physical damage

could it be that the motor is no longer strong enough to drive the dish and is damaged internaly

?

***johnsattuk*** · 26-12-2007

If you do not connect the 5v, you will not get pulses back to the reciever, ( unless you have converted it to a reed sw. ) and generally, recievers stop driving as soon as they lack pulses

The pulse circuit boards do fail on these motors occasionaly, usually due to a misconnection, or a fault in the reciever 5v supply

AndyX · 26-12-2007

Originally Posted by johnsattuk

If you do not connect the 5v, you will not get pulses back to the reciever, ( unless you have converted it to a reed sw. ) and generally, recievers stop driving as soon as they lack pulses

The pulse circuit boards do fail on these motors occasionaly, usually due to a misconnection, or a fault in the reciever 5v supply

Thank you John

I have now found some extra wire and attached the 5 volt. Unfortunately it has not made any difference. It does sound like if the optic circuit may have gone then. I think I may have to send the motor to Amsterdam for repair then. or buy a motor from you, if that is still on offer

**Snuffer** · 27-12-2007

Take 2 wire's and a 36 Volts (or lower) power suply.

Put it direct on the motor and see of he turns. cross wire's and he must turn to the ather site.
If turns motor are ok.
If you turn the gold colored gogh insite the complete part must turn. This is the low resistens piont for turning by your hand.
If you will i can send a new print with the resistors etc on so you can switch it to see of this is broken.
Afther you test you send it back or keep it and pay for it.
When thats to mutch work send me that motor i send a revision motor to you.

All when you will it ofcourse

Sorry for bad Englisch