Ms. Murphy vs. FA Premier League - Test case for use of foreign subs in UK

**TJExcalibur** · 29-11-2007

Admin Note: This thread will be reopened when a result is known.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7118656.stm

Originally Posted by BBC News

The High Court is considering whether a pub should be allowed to show live English Premier League football matches from foreign broadcasts.

Karen Murphy of the Red, White and Blue pub in Southsea, Hampshire is appealing a Crown Court verdict that she could not show the games.

It is a test case for many publicans who have tried to use alternatives to B SkyB and Setanta's services.

The FA Premier League is fighting the case to protect exclusivity deals.

Criminal record risk

Ms Murphy was showing live matches through a Greek broadcaster called Nova, which charged her about £800 a year - compared with the £6,000 that she would have had to pay Sky for the service.

MORE

I am interested in the outcome, especialy considering the hefty fees Sky charge.

**4dbennett** · 29-11-2007

Originally Posted by TJExcalibur

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7118656.stm

I am interested in the outcome, especialy considering the hefty fees Sky charge.

Me too m8, please keep us posted

deep joy

dave

**rolfw** · 29-11-2007

I think everyone will be interested to hear the outcome, not least the Premiership football clubs, who could end up taking a big hit in their income for the coming year.

Whatever the reason though, it needs putting to bed once and for all.

**jimbo** · 30-11-2007

Originally Posted by rolfw

Whatever the reason though, it needs putting to bed once and for all.

True Rolf ..... how many times have we seen this issue raised over the last few years.

**joshjess** · 30-11-2007

Any news from the High Court yet on the case of Karen Murphy and the showing of Nova in her pub?

**andyw37** · 01-12-2007

The judges are out and deliberating. They have stated that the judgement on the right to appeal could take up to 3 months, other rumours are that it could be 8.

Good for pubs, get a cheap system in as MPS can not prosecute in a lesser court until then.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle2971334.ece

Sptss · 02-12-2007

Don't think she has much hope in this country but, Have been looking into the legality of it in the european union for nearly 3 yrs now. And the people who are in the know that walk in the same circuls as me rate her chance's as high as 90%-95%

**T_G** · 04-12-2007

I hope the European union will free us once and for all. I am sick of it. Why can't it be like radio - you tune in and you can listen to whatever your receiver receives...

**RedDevil_UK** · 04-12-2007

were all sick of Ruperts Monopoly....

his "watch it with me or i will sue you" attitude is all wrong.

saying that, the BBC are just the same..... ive been paying for my TV licence for years, even though i watch nothing on BBC. At least with sky you can opt out....

i really cant see how sky can justify £6000 a year, just because its a pub.
OK so maybe pay a little more.... most pubs are struggling now as it is, so its no wonder they are looking at cheaper alternatives.

**Analoguesat** · 04-12-2007

6000 quid a year isnt much when you break down the figures a bit.

Suppose the pub shows 1 game a week thats £115 per game give or take a few pennies.

Thats the sale of 50 odd pints during the game to cover the weekly cost at about 2 quid a pint. Most pubs will sell considerably more than 50 pints before / during / after an average footy game

**Topper** · 04-12-2007

Well I do not agree there and perhaps Rolf will have more idea than most and be able to sort this but by my calculations I suspect he would have to sell 500 pints to cover the cost assuming 20p per pint is actual profit and that is just to cover the costs not pay any overheads wages electric heating business rates etc

**rolfw** · 04-12-2007

I'm totally out of touch with what is made on beer nowadays, but I would guess that on a £2 pint, a pub would make a maximum of about 70 pence.

I certainly don't disagree about the price being too much for a pub subscription, but then again, the pubs always have the choice of not subscribing and if they acted in concert, then Sky would have to bring their prices down.

What ever happens with this case, let's not muddy the waters and confuse it with people buying overseas subscriptions for their private use, as there does not appear to be any serious attempt to prevent this by the providers.

**andyw37** · 04-12-2007

I have installed over 500 pub systems. Not one publican stated that SKY was value for money. Especially when you assess commercial prices throughout Europe for their parent leagues.

Remember more people now than ever have SKY and cable at home, therefore reducing the need to go down the pub. I went to watch the Man Utd v Fulham game last night, 6 punters viewed the game. Remember also that the league is only for 9 months, the pubs are empty in the interim period.

Now the Premiership is to blame. Greed ! They let Sky bid £300million more than nearest rivals for premiership rights. No questions as to how SKY will generate this revenue.Where was OFCOM ?

SO SKY PAY THE PREMIER LEAGUE WAY WAY OVER THE ODDS, PLAYERS GET HUGE WAGES, SKY CONTINUALLY INCREASE THEIR PRICES, MORE FOREIGN PLAYERS APPEAR . . . . . AND . . . . . . . . . . . THE ENGLAND SQUAD IS CRAP!

PS I have installed ART and Digialb for 2 SKY execs.

Murphy will lose.

***the_happy_traveller*** · 05-12-2007

Talking to the landlord at my local tonight (a tennant) he was saying that with rent, utilities, etc.
they had to clear about £2500 a week just to break even.
With beer now at about £2.50 a pint round here, thats 1000 pints sold a week just to pay the bills.
He reckons that with the hours he works, he earns about £2 an hour.

Adding another £6000 a year to the bills would just not be viable.

**rolfw** · 05-12-2007

Lets be fair guys, a commercial Sky subscription is too expensive, but I have yet to meet a landlord who hasn't pled poverty and any expense they have will in their opinion, not be value for money.

In a smaller pub they tend to work far more hours than the average man on the street, as they have to do most of the jobs themselves. You can't blame that on Sky though, it is their choice of work and on let's say an 18 hour day, if they are truly only earning £2 per hour (including their food, drink, driving and living expenses), then they probably need to re-evaluate their career choice.

Sptss · 05-12-2007

A good friend of mine is an onroad trainer for one of the leading & most sucsessfull pub chains. He is a monster in his industry, well known and respected by all. He puts the figures like this. With the lowest S-y band possible at nearly 580 pints just to recover the inital fee. Remember that is for the lowest rateable band there is. This does not of course cover the bigger pubs or the much larger working mens clubs. NOT POSSIBLE in such a low margin industry. And i know. Up until april this year i had installed just over 860 commercial satellite systems in the UK & NI over nearly five years. Though this figure may sound alot it is infact only 37% of the figure of pubs & clubs that went to the wall in the last financial year. All of my repeat business is from good guys, honest men, licencees who just cannot afford S-y if they want there business to surive. FACT... All my customers say one thing! The same old saying. "Screwed if you do Screwed if you don't!!!" Let hope S-y get a good kicking on this matter. But i fear only in european court. Not one based in the UK.

Fingers crossed for all those pubs & clubs out there that are being squeezed for every penny for over priced satellite TV. Regards, SSS

**Topper** · 05-12-2007

As a footnote to this I would just like to say that if I was a publican or landlord I would consider (as part of me living in a free democratic society) it my fundamental right to choose. That is what is wrong in all this, the choice element has being taken out of the equation. So what did happen to the democracy we once had? Unfortunately it is just a monopoly where the boys with the biggest bucks have the most power to persuade (or otherwise) the people who pull the strings, that it should be done the way they want. Regrettably it is not only in this instance. This type of persuasion takes place in all aspects of life, even as to where the next Olympics will take place, or where the first giant casino will be built.

**RedDevil_UK** · 06-12-2007

as an added twist...

if you watch Footy on a foreign channel, sky ARE still being paid!

they paid mega bucks for the rights to Premiership football, then re sell it the world over.... so the fact is the channel your watching it on, HAS paid sky through the nose to show it anyway.

so whatever channel you watch it on, SKY is getting a cut.

Makes you wonder why they are moaning, the phrase "cake and eat it" springs to mind.

**rolfw** · 06-12-2007

I'm going to close this threads, as we're getting the same old spleen venting arguments based on factoids and specious side arguments.

Somebody send me a PM when the results are known, then I'll open the thread again.

**TJExcalibur** · 21-12-2007

-http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7155939.stm

Originally Posted by BBC News

A publican has suffered a setback in her High Court battle to use a foreign broadcaster - instead of B SkyB - to show live UK football to her customers.

Karen Murphy, who runs a pub in Southsea, Hampshire, was appealing against a copyright theft conviction.

She had used a dish which allowed her to receive UK games from Greek station Nova for £800 a year, instead of paying £6,000 a year for B SkyB.

Judges ruled against her appeal but it will now be reconsidered under EU laws.

Ms Murphy's use of the Greek equipment also allowed her to show live games on a Saturday afternoon, which the Premier League does not make available to companies broadcasting in England.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * *

But Ms Murphy's lawyer Paul Dixon stressed the case was not yet over. He said: "In footballing terms, we are in the half-time interval, and every football fan knows that the game is never over and nor is the result certain until the final whistle," he said.

"We have always said that this case is all about European law, and the High Court has not yet heard argument on the European Union issues," he added.

MORE

iguassu · 28-03-2008

Good day Gents/Ladies
Just to put something into perspective (on another planet actually), there are oil production platforms offshore UK waters that have to cough up over 25,000 a year to have SKY TV for the staff.........!!!!!
Add Setanta and watch the figures more than double....!!
Just thought I should mention a little known reality.

sagarhshah · 02-05-2008

Originally Posted by RedDevil_UK

as an added twist...

if you watch Footy on a foreign channel, sky ARE still being paid!

they paid mega bucks for the rights to Premiership football, then re sell it the world over.... so the fact is the channel your watching it on, HAS paid sky through the nose to show it anyway.

so whatever channel you watch it on, SKY is getting a cut.

Makes you wonder why they are moaning, the phrase "cake and eat it" springs to mind.

Actually no thats not how it works.
SKY and setanta only pay for the rights to show the matches in the UK and Ireland.
Rights to show matches on foreign channels are negotiated separately by the premier league and they also include the 3pm kickoff games which are not shown here in the UK because of some EU legislation(but that is entirely a different matter)

Code:

http://www.china.org.cn/english/sports/196666.htm

So in effect SKY have every right to pursue this matter through the courts as they are missing out in revenue for football games which are broadcasted through foreign broadcasters in the UK.

But that being said I have to say it is pretty much SKY's fault as they are charging very high subcriptions in order to recoup the exorbitant amounts they paid to get the rights to broadcast these games. They paid 300 million more then the nearest rival bid (I think).

It is the Premier Leagues fault as well for selling to the highest bidder without thinking about the consequences of what this might have.

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