ART and Nova satellite card supplier found guilty

**chris** · 06-03-2008

A foreign satellite supplier has pleaded guilty to four offences relating to breaches of the copyright and fraud act in a landmark case at Mold Crown Court.

Mark Ronald Elsdon of foreign satellite supplier Digisales has been remanded on bail until 11 April for pre-sentence reports but Judge Mervyn Hughes warned a custodial sentence could be on the cards.

Elsdon was the first supplier to be arrested back in July following a raid on his premises by Conwy police and trading standards.

He faced 18 counts of offences against the Copyright Designs & Patents Act, Fraud Act and attempting to pervert the course of justice.

Elsdon pleaded guilty to four specimen counts of supplying unauthorised ART (North African) decoder cards and four specimen counts of offering unauthorised Nova (Greek) decoder cards for sale for receiving Premier League football.

Judge Hughes said it ”was extremely unfortunate” and “ill advised” for Elsdon to have sought the advice of the European Satellite Television Association (Esta).

Hughes said the offences were serious and crossed the threshold for a custodial sentence.

Other counts on the indictment were not proceeded with.

A Premier League spokesman said: “This sends out a clear message to the trade that supplying cards as well as using them is illegal.

"It also confirms that Esta and its propaganda message should be disregarded."

**rolfw** · 06-03-2008

Well that one snuck in under the door. Not sure whether it proves anything, as it doesn't appear that he has the ability to appeal, as he pled guilty, so we probably need to wait for some of the others to get a definitive ruling.

07-03-2008

What a joke no law has been broke by selling cards, The speed limit on the motorway is 70mph my focus st and do over 150mph now should ford get done it court as the car can do illegal speeds NO what a $%$ joke

**stuzeeuk** · 09-03-2008

All gun sellers take note ..... you could be prosecuted for murder !!!!

In all seriousness can we trust the source of this article, I would assume its nonsense (not you Chris ...... the article)

**rolfw** · 09-03-2008

The source is the Morning Advertiser, very trustworthy.

It was also reported in a local paper.

At the end of the day, it isn't whether you agree with the law or not, it is whether the existing law can legitimately prevent this happening, this court decided that it can. We won't know the long term situation until the other cases hit the European court, but if it rules against the providers, it will have huge ramifications on the way that football rights are sold and how much money they sell for.

Re the analogies.

If Ford sold cars to people in the UK, telling them to go out and exceed the speed limit by 80mph and indemnifying them to do it, then they probably would end up in court.

Similarly, someone selling you a gun, assuring you that you are legally entitled to Kill someone with it and encouraging you to do so, would also end up in court.

Neither are particularly relevant.

10-03-2008

There is but you are just over looking the point,

Originally Posted by rolfw

The source is the Morning Advertiser, very trustworthy.

It was also reported in a local paper.

At the end of the day, it isn't whether you agree with the law or not, it is whether the existing law can legitimately prevent this happening, this court decided that it can. We won't know the long term situation until the other cases hit the European court, but if it rules against the providers, it will have huge ramifications on the way that football rights are sold and how much money they sell for.

Re the analogies.

If Ford sold cars to people in the UK, telling them to go out and exceed the speed limit by 80mph and indemnifying them to do it, then they probably would end up in court.

Similarly, someone selling you a gun, assuring you that you are legally entitled to Kill someone with it and encouraging you to do so, would also end up in court.

Neither are particularly relevant.

**rolfw** · 10-03-2008

Sorry, not sure what you mean.

10-03-2008

To cut a long story short the user (pub) should be the one in trouble not he dealer as the viewing card is nothing with out the receiver/cam and being on a football match in a pub with people watching

Originally Posted by rolfw

Sorry, not sure what you mean.

**rolfw** · 10-03-2008

No, he has been done for selling cards with the assurance that there is no problem with using them in a pub to show to your customers, that is fraud, as he knows full well that there will be.

If his legal team have advised him to plead guilty, you can pretty much guarantee that they have looked into it pretty well.

**stuzeeuk** · 10-03-2008

Originally Posted by rolfw

No, he has been done for selling cards with the assurance that there is no problem with using them in a pub to show to your customers, that is fraud, as he knows full well that there will be.

If his legal team have advised him to plead guilty, you can pretty much guarantee that they have looked into it pretty well.

Hi Rolfw, sorry my comment was semi tongue in cheek.

I appreciate the point your making and largely agree. I guess it comes down to the finer points of the law. We seen this with music download websites. It wasn't the uploading of music or storing of music is illegal, it was the systematic catagloging that led the court to state that the website host was therefore invovled in aiding people to breach copyright.

As on this website all the retailer would need to do is state that the cards are for use in Greece (for NOVA) and/or those who will be moving to Greece to use the card. A simple disclaimer would suffice.

I have no idea how he advertised the cards or sold them (it would be a serious school boy error to install as well)

I guess thats my point, maybe this guy was bang to rights but with a little tweaking the law could be easily bypassed, or at least moved into a much greyer area. (selling ofshore may be another option also)

I would suggest here the retailer was either lax in his knowledge of the law and/or marketed inapporpriately........ thus was left without a leg to stand on.

**rolfw** · 10-03-2008

No problem.

That's the issue, a lot of the dealers have been proactive in the sale of these cards, selling whole systems as a replacement for Sky pub subscriptions and assuring pub landlords that there is not a problem if they use them to show football to their customers. They (the dealers) are buying them as domestic subscriptions, but effectively selling them as commercial subscriptions.

As far as I know, there has been no movement against people selling domestic subscriptions for use in the domestic market place, they appear to be turning a blind eye on this.

scott1e · 03-12-2008

the worst guy in the foreign satellite game is j*** s*****s from birmingham he told me blue in the face it was legal and lied about what i would get.

imho they know they are doing fraud and they sell these systems knowing that it is illegal to use them.

all they are bothered about is scamming you.

Name removed by Admin.

sportsat · 09-03-2009

i got arrested last summer for eagle box go to court next month attached is the charge sheet , they say eagle box is illegal ,so phone alsa*who i told them the score they said post ioon there site which i did and got banned ,never again am i going to deall with them .

**bigtee** · 09-03-2009

Have you got legal representation?

This seems to be a private prosecution by F.A.C.T.

They will have to prove what encrypted programmes can be watched with the eagle box; you (and your representatives) might consider putting them to proof of which UK broadcast can be received illegally on the box; however, the card-sharing element of the receiver may potentially weaken this argument than if the receiver was, say a Technomate 1500.

sportsat · 10-03-2009

getting a breif next week mate , more fuming over ***** the shower of pricks.

Publife · 11-03-2009

Sportsat.

Hi I am new to this and have been reading the posts on the Karen Murphy case and other posts about live sports shown in the pubs via a satellite supplier outside of the UK. I also follow the posts on the Morning Advertiser about the use of these boxes and cards.

It seems that the company's that offer the cards tell all landlords that their is not an issue with them to be used in a public house but their clearly is an issue to use these cards in a public house, if their was no issues then why is their so many court cases about it.

I know its too late now but the company that sold you the card told you that you can use it in your pub, can't you take them to court or report them to trade/standards because they have misled you into a sale?

The reason I follow these posts is because my dad was conned into taking a card from a company for use in one off his pubs and he ended up having to go back to sky or risk being taken to court.

He found that he can reduce his costs by using sky correctly in his pubs by taken only what the business will use and make money from,

EX. Local outlets that are in a town area with lots of working mens clubs tend to be customers of an older age who use local betting shops would use the pub to sit in at lunchtimes so that outlet only needed Racing UK and At the races, sky sold him an At the races card and Racing UK sold him a card.

EX. Other outlets that are in town have a larger passing trade and a full sky package with all live sports pull in a younger customers who will sit in the pub to watch the football.

I feel that the price sky charge is sometimes very high but sky prices pubs on their rates and you can use that to help your business by getting them reduced to reduce your package price.

Some pubs just can't make sky pay and really should not be using it as the trade is hard enough on its own right now (Smoking Ban, Supermarket drink offers, trade ties ect) these pubs should stick to good food, Quiz nights, local fokes , and being part of the local town to keep the business going strong.

On another point can anyone tell me about these 3pm kick off games and the rules around showing them in the pub and more to the point why can't sky give me them as some off the games shown at this time would really help our trade?

Thanks

Publife

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