freesat/free to air confusion

anthony07

Hi all,

I rushed out on Sunday and bought a free to air satellite receiver from Aldi's, got it all installed and working but then came confusion.

One of the reasons that I wanted it was to receive Euronews, which seemed to be listed as a channel that could be received with non-subscription equipment. I then noticed that the channel listing I had read was for "Freesat". Now I am confused. I thought that Free to air and freesat were interchangable terms, like the 'net and the web, but it seems not. Can anyone help me here, please? Can I use the Tevion to receive freesat broadcasts, or do I need to change it for some other box?

Thanks in advance

Tony

Mickha

Euronews is FTA (Free to Air), 12560 V 27500, but it is broadcast from Eurobird 1, 28.5E, the same as Zone Horror and Movies 4 Men:
_http://www.lyngsat.com/eb1.html
You probably just need to tweak the dish slightly, to peak the signal and you should then receive all the FTA channels on both 28.2E and 28.5E.
_http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.html

Analoguesat

Free to air = anything transmitted without encryption

Freesat = the subset of the fta channels that have signed up to join the Freesat epg

And just to confuse things:

Freesatfromsky = the free channels that are scrambled but only require a one off payment of £20 and a skybox to watch them

Analoguesat's message to the world Analogue forever!

Tivù

Freesat is a "Platform": In essence, all it does is place a selection of Free To Air Channels on a fixed Electronic Programme Guide giving simple access to "memorable" Channel numbers and also providing a means of navigating up to 7 days worth of Programme Information.

All the Channels "on Freesat" are FTA, but not all FTA Channels are on Freesat (because they choose not to pay a listing fee).

So your Tevion has some advantages eg because you can add/move/rename/delete any FTA Channels from a Satellite position but also has some disadvantages eg Only Now & Next Programme Info is available.

In essence, you are receiving Freesat broadcasts, but not with the degree of organisation that a Freesat receiver gives.

Tivù

As for Euronews, you won't need to alter your Dish at all: Just add the Transponder carrying Euronews (12560 V 27500) to the list for Astra 2. Some Receivers have Eurobird separately listed, but to all intents and purpose it is co-located with Astra 2, so you can safely ignore any Eurobird listing and simply use the Astra 2 (or 28E) one.

Either that, or carry out an Auto Scan of Astra2/28E (however the Tevion labels it). That'll also give you loads more Channels you might have discovered are missing!

Pre-loaded Transponder lists are always out of date/incorrect and can be put right either by an Auto scan or by manually updating by correlating with eg

_http://www.flysat.com/28east.php

anthony07

Thanks for all the replies, they are all really helpfull. Now I can justify drilling an hole through the wall for the aerial cable :-)

Tivù

Are you using the toy Dish that comes with the Tevion then, right now?

I did wonder if you were making use of a redundant Sky Dish.

anthony07

Yes, although I found an old (I.E. one of the round sky tyoe - 80cm?) dishes with an LNB dumped and brought it home. I was wondering whether it would be better to use that (does larger = better in this case?) and wasn't sure whether I should use the LNB that was with it (Phillips SX1019) or just keep using the one supplied with the Tevion?

Any thoughts?

Tivù

I wouldn't bother using the Tevion Dish in the long term.

The old Sky "Analogue" Dish will be just fine: You will need to replace the LNB with a new Universal one with a 40mm Collar Mount. They are very inexpensive - but do take care not to get one for "Sky" Dishes as these have a different means of fitting and are matched to the oval Dishes Sky now use for Digital.

Those old Dishes are a great size - almost equivalent to a modern 80cm. Using that will give you much more scope for expending your Satellite horizons beyond 28E

Larger = more Gain ie You can get weaker signals

BUT

Larger = narrower Beamwidth ie more precision required for alignment

Fortunately the size of that old Dish is such that you'll get the best of all worlds: I commend it to the House!

PaulR

Just donning my pedant's hat for a moment these are not interchangeable either!

The World Wide Web actually runs over the Internet. There are other things that run on the Internet such as email and streaming feeds.

PaulR As I get older I find myself thinking about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

anthony07

One of my work colleagues persists in calling it "the interweb"

anthony07

Is there a particular spec for English LNB's? I am in Florida at the moment and usually electrical products are cheaper, and I had thought of buying and LNB with more than one connector, but I obviously don't want to buy anything that won't work. I have seen dishes here but they are a lot bigger than the (usual) ones at home

Thanks again

Tony

Tivù

Don't bother - they are cheap enough back home! Max. £20, often less.

Single, Twin or Quad output Universal Ku Band LNB for 40mm Collar Mounting is what you want.

BIG Dishes tend to use a different kind of LNB called C120: These fit at the exact optical focal point of big Dishes.

What you want is for an Offset Dish ie Where the LNB arm is fitted to the bottom of the dish, but is angled upwards toward the focal point.

anthony07

Oh good, I like saving money.

Many thanks

Tony

Robbo

Apart from that, you'd probably end up with the wrong thing as they use some different terminology and some circular polarisation rather than linear. Also we tend to use mostly Universal LNBs for domestic stuff, wheras I believe single band lnbs are used there too.

anthony07

[QUOTE=Tivù;863551]As for Euronews, you won't need to alter your Dish at all: Just add the Transponder carrying Euronews (12560 V 27500) to the list for Astra 2.

Ok, back home now and just tried to manually add this channel, however I am getting 0% quality on those settings. I went through the re set up route and when going through the list of available satellites found the following:

Astra 2 67% quality 74% Signal
Astra 1E 71% Quality 74% Signal
Astra 1F 69% Quality 74% Signal

I think this means I need to re align my dish, is that right?

Thanks

Tony

Tivù

I wouldn't have thought so. Perfectly adequate figures for Digital Satellite.

With that size Dish, Eurobird should appear co-located with Astra 2: Get one, get 'em all.

Recheck the exact details you entered for the Euronews TP?

Actually, if the Tevion has something called "Auto Search" (or similar), use that and it should find everything that is available from 28E.

Do turn off any DECT phone equipment and stuff like BT Home Hub as these can cause problems with reception of some Transponders.

anthony07

Should Eurobird 1 show as a separate entry, only I can only see Eurobirds 2 and 9

I haven't actually changed the dish as yet, so would the fact that I am still using the toy dish have an effect on it?

Tivù

It doesn't matter - I refer you back to Posts 5 & 17 : You can consider it co-located with Astra 2 and can use the same list. That's all those stored "Satellites" are, lists - If it would be easier, just edit the list called Astra 2 (or whatever it actually is on that Box) and call it 28E, or UK ..... whatever.

Then either Autoscan if the Receiver has that feature or manually add the Eurobird 1 Transponder details manually to the same list. The Receiver hasn't the slightest idea that there are five or so Satellites in the same small area and that they are operated by two companies!

Again, as stated in earlier Posts, the small dish actually assists in this case owing to its wide beamwidth - It will happily "accept" signals from 28.2E and 28.5E with the same alignment.

And your alignment seems perfectly adequate from the figures you gave.

One thing you might do is Skew the LNB: Looking from the LNB to the Dish, slacken the collar and rotate it clockwise to around about ten past two (ish). That should mean you get good results on both Horizontally and Vertically polarised Transponders (which might be part of the problem you are having).

anthony07

Ok thanks, but I am not sure what the problem is now, I am looking at the screen and I have;
Satellite Name Astra 2
Transponder 83
Frequency 12560
Symbol rate 27500
Polarization Ver
Search type all
NIT search Off
Signal 64%
Quality 0%

I understand that it won't shew anything if the Quality is too low, which it obviously is, but why, given that the quality from other transponders on Astra 2 are in the high 60's?

Thanks again

Tivù

Again, as stated in previous Posts:

Try Skewing the LNB

Turn off any potential interference sources like DECT Phones, BT Home Hub or similar.

anthony07

Will do, thanks again

Tony

Analoguesat

12560 is one of the slightly weaker transponders. You may need to tweak the dish alignment slightly.

On the size dish you are using 28.2E / 28.5E are effectively colocated - the acceptance angle of the dish is far greater than the 0.3 degree difference between them. However if the dish is marginally misaligned then you could find its enough to kill the reception of a few Eurobird frequencies.

Analoguesat's message to the world Analogue forever!

anthony07

Thanks all, finally got Euronews last night.

Tivù

Very good!