USB drive format and video format?

icarusi · 09-12-2008

I have a Fortecstar Passion Plus. The required disk format is FAT32. A partition of the disk can be formatted as FAT32 but any other partitions formatted as NTFS prevent reading of the FAT32 partition by the stb. After deleting any NTFS partitions the pre-existing FAT32 partition can be read.

The video is written to one folder per recording containing a minimum of 3 files:- .ts, .idx and .nfo . The video .ts files are approx 1.5Gb max size. Subsequent video files are suffixed .001, .002 etc. The files appear to be H264, as identified on Media Player Classic (96.4.9.1r81) but play strangely. Luxe tv HD and ITV HD play jerkyly, BBC HD plays with no audio and high speeds with audio squelches. The files will not play on VLC 0.9.6 or KMPlayer 2.9.3.1428

I've been using a Samsung HD5021J 500Gb drive in a CNM docking station formatted to FAT32 on XP SP2 o/s with 'SwissKnife'. I also used an Emtec 8Gb USB stick but there was mild playback picture breakup at the transition between .ts files. I don't know if this was due to record or playback problems but the hardisk playback showed no similar problems.

If you have a HD satellite reicever which has PVR using USB, which disk and video format does it use?

I understand Technomate HD receivers also use FAT32.

***compufunk*** · 10-12-2008

Im not quite sure what you are asking here, apart from this bit.

Originally Posted by icarusi

If you have a HD satellite reicever which has PVR using USB, which disk and video format does it use?.

I dont have a HD system, but I can tell you that, FAT32 is the most common format for file systems used in portable or non PC based storage systems.

FAT32 is a relatively simple system for STP/MP3player etc software developers to implement. Its almost just read from the drive, write to the drive. without to much complexity.

NTFS is a windowz/MS file system and is really only used for PCs, NTFS has a lot of security, encryption etc features that are beyond the scope of the average STB or MP3 Player, EXT2,3 are the most common Linux equivalents. But even most Linux devices recognize FAT32.

I can see why you might have problems if you have a drive that is formatted into multiple partitions along with multiple file systems.

I assume you used a PC to partition and format the drive, This writes a partition table to the drive that a PC can recognize and use. Its probably beyond that capability of your STB to read this table and use the available FAT32 partition.

The above may not apply completely to your system (I dont have or know your STB). Im talking in general terms.

**HB13DISH** · 10-12-2008

I think that compufunk has a point there. Try formatting the USB drive using the STB and see if this improves things.
Backup the recordings first.
Hopefully there is such a possibility in one of the STB menus.
Also it might be interesting to format the EMTEC USB flash stick with the STB and see what happens.
My Dreambox 7000S formatted it as vFAT and I have good recordings with it (SD only) and most importantly, the PC recognize the *.ts files.
This might be of interest:
USB Flash Problem
The Samsung HD5021J drive is a 3.5" and 7200 rpm HDD.
Try testing with a 2.5" HDD and 5400 rpm as the power requirement is less.

icarusi · 16-12-2008

Originally Posted by compufunk

Im not quite sure what you are asking here, apart from this bit.
I dont have a HD system, but I can tell you that, FAT32 is the most common format for file systems used in portable or non PC based storage systems.

FAT32 is a relatively simple system for STP/MP3player etc software developers to implement. Its almost just read from the drive, write to the drive. without to much complexity.

NTFS is a windowz/MS file system and is really only used for PCs, NTFS has a lot of security, encryption etc features that are beyond the scope of the average STB or MP3 Player, EXT2,3 are the most common Linux equivalents. But even most Linux devices recognize FAT32.

It seems that FAT32 is the only format common to Macs too, but don't know if that has any bearing. Also don't know why it breaks into 1.5Gb files rather than 4Gb which FAT32 can do. NTFS-3G may have too much overhead and UFS would need an additional 'reader' for XP or Vista, so FAT32's probably the safe option.

I can see why you might have problems if you have a drive that is formatted into multiple partitions along with multiple file systems.

I assume you used a PC to partition and format the drive, This writes a partition table to the drive that a PC can recognize and use. Its probably beyond that capability of your STB to read this table and use the available FAT32 partition.

I can't recall if I tried two FAT32 partitions, It may be 'any' second primary partition is a problem.

icarusi · 16-12-2008

Originally Posted by HB13DISH

I think that compufunk has a point there. Try formatting the USB drive using the STB and see if this improves things.
Backup the recordings first.
Hopefully there is such a possibility in one of the STB menus.
Also it might be interesting to format the EMTEC USB flash stick with the STB and see what happens.
My Dreambox 7000S formatted it as vFAT and I have good recordings with it (SD only) and most importantly, the PC recognize the *.ts files.
This might be of interest:
USB Flash Problem
The Samsung HD5021J drive is a 3.5" and 7200 rpm HDD.
Try testing with a 2.5" HDD and 5400 rpm as the power requirement is less.

I'm pretty sure I did format the Emtec stick with the stb but 'swissknife' format seems to be recognised equally. The usb hard disk is powered so I don't think power is a problem. The docking station does spindown the drive if not in use, but 'scan' or 'record' spins it up ok. If I boot the stb and drive together it's ok but if I move the drive to the pc and back or from the front usb to the back, it can 'lose' the drive with a 'not ready or not FAT32' until I reboot both. There is a 'management' feature which only reports the disk size. It may force a 'refresh' of the FAT read which the 'scan' doen't seem to fully do.

***compufunk*** · 16-12-2008

Originally Posted by icarusi

Also don't know why it breaks into 1.5Gb files rather than 4Gb which FAT32 can do.

Splitting the files at 1Gb or so seems to be standard practice. I don't know about your receiver, but you can set the threshold for splitting files on some.

I'm not sure why its done, but possibly software can better handle a smaller filesize, rather than having a whole film in one big 4.7Gb lump.

Browse any DVD and you will see that the .VOB video files are split into 1Gb or under.

I have to ask, why are you bothering to mess around with partitions and filesystems at all? If you format the drive in the receiver and it does it in FAT32, then a PC, MAC or Linux box can read it.

icarusi · 17-12-2008

Originally Posted by compufunk

I have to ask, why are you bothering to mess around with partitions and filesystems at all? If you format the drive in the receiver and it does it in FAT32, then a PC, MAC or Linux box can read it.

Currently from BBC HD it's only 12.5 minutes per 1.5Gb so it's a lot of files to be assembled if a long recording is moved from one player to another. Plus there's the problem of how each player handles multiple files and synchronisation. One synced mpeg4 file is more convenient than separate folders with multiple files.

icarusi · 17-12-2008

Originally Posted by icarusi

There is a 'management' feature which only reports the disk size. It may force a 'refresh' of the FAT read which the 'scan' doen't seem to fully do.

It didn't force a refresh, but rebooting the USB drive and repeated use of the 'scan' eventually got the drive recognised without rebooting the receiver (and losing the EPG data).

I formatted the Emtec 8Gb with the receiver and it played back ok over the file breaks. I also copied the Emtec data to the Samsung drive using my PC and both drives were recognised by the receiver. It seems to be arbitrary as to whether re-plugged drives will be recognised by the receiver without a reboot. I suspect there's some usb handshaking fault, if it works, it works, if it doesn't there's no reliable way without a receiver reboot to make it work.

I recorded more more video to the Emtec stick and noticed some freeze frames whilst recording. I haven't watched the recording yet to see if the freezes are recorded or if they match with file junctions.

If I do find file junction glitches I'll copy the data to the Samsung drive to see if it's a write problem rather than a read problem.

***compufunk*** · 17-12-2008

Originally Posted by icarusi

Currently from BBC HD it's only 12.5 minutes per 1.5Gb so it's a lot of files to be assembled if a long recording is moved from one player to another. .......

The file system on the drive has nothing to do with how the files are split up.

You're original question was to do with filesystems, which is why I asked the question you quoted you quoted in post #7.

icarusi · 18-12-2008

Originally Posted by compufunk

The file system on the drive has nothing to do with how the files are split up.

You're original question was to do with filesystems, which is why I asked the question you quoted you quoted in post #7.

FAT32 has a maximum of 4Gb per file, I hour of 1080p H264 HD is approx. 7.7 Gb so FAT32 can't do much longer than 30 minutes per file of HD. I don't know why the Passion+ splits at 1.5Gb but it's 12.5 minutes of BBC HD and 22.5 minutes of ITV HD or Luxe TV approx.

***compufunk*** · 18-12-2008

Ahh! I see what you mean,

If the receiver can only read FAT32 drives then your stumped, or at least I cant think of a way round it.

The only other thing I can suggest is that you try formatting the whole drive in NTFS, with just one partition. I don't think you've mentioned trying that.

I doubt if the receiver will be able to handle it though, good luck with it

icarusi · 19-12-2008

Originally Posted by compufunk

The only other thing I can suggest is that you try formatting the whole drive in NTFS, with just one partition. I don't think you've mentioned trying that.

I haven't tried that but assume the 'not ready or not FAT32' warning will preclude NTFS. It's already file splitting at 1.5 rather than 4Gb so I suspect it may be a hardware limitation.

I'll try and and find an editor for the HP@L4 profile files which the P+ website identifies.

icarusi · 20-12-2008

Originally Posted by icarusi

If I do find file junction glitches I'll copy the data to the Samsung drive to see if it's a write problem rather than a read problem.

It does seem to be a write problem with the Emtec stick. I recorded 'Apparitions' and frames had been 'deleted' at each 12.5 minute section. The same frames were missing after I'd transferred the folder to the Samsung hardrive. There was no picture breakup at the junctions but some sound dropouts depending on the content at the time.

BBC HD runs at circa 16Mb/s whereas ITV HD and LuxeTV are at circa 10Mb/s so the Emtec stick may work better with those channels, otherwise a faster 'write' usb stick is needed for 'seamless' operation.

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USB drive format and video format? For all (Non Sky) HD receiving equipment discussion and where to find the transmissions

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