Which Official Card ?

**benny** · 02-08-2004

Hi,
Just after a bit of advice.Im going to get an official card,but not sure which is best. Ive got a 1m motorised dish,hummie 5400,matrix reloaded cam.
Im after premiership matches and as many premiership plus games as possible.
And because of the location of the system ( A place where the ale flows ) it must be in english. The money side of it is not a problem. Im just not sure on which card to get. Most scrambling systems are supported by the matrix,so thats ok.

Any ideas.

Benny

**rolfw** · 02-08-2004

Unfortunately Benny, regardless of whether you get an official card or otherwise, if the card provider does not have the rights to show the events in the UK, then you are still falling foul of copyright and the copyright holders are becoming more vigorous in protecting their interests.

I will move this up to Jimbo's sport section, as you may get more response there, there are also some links telling you who shows what.

**jimbo** · 02-08-2004

Agree with Rolf on this Benny. Premiership footy is possible with the right cam/card....but in English? Nah....possibly one channel occasionally. Then of course you can 'lose' the footy from time to time when there's a code change. AFAIK TPS in France may be showing prem footy next season and you would need a second mortgage for an official subscription.

**benny** · 02-08-2004

Hello,
I was a bit suprised to get such an official response,to be honest . I do realise that its a bit naughty but surely not as naughty as using my matrix reloaded and constantly upgrade codes?
Some channels also show the games FTA,which brings in other points.
Going back to my original post. I think premiere and tele+ have english,they used to but not sure if they still do.

Any help/views will be appreciated

many thanks

benny

**rolfw** · 02-08-2004

Benny, these aren't official responses, but common sense, yes of course you can do it with titanium cards and MR CAM, but even if you do it with an official card from a legitimate European provider, you will get jumped on, there are an increasing amount of cases turning up in the papers.

We make no apologies about this forum's discussion on obtaining free TV, but as soon as you apply a commercial edge to it the providers look at it differently.

You could get Premiership games from 5 East on one channel earlier this year, but if you are in a pub and effectively reselling the programme, you are leaving yourself wide open.

Not sure whether the Premiere channels have an English soundtrack, but it's a while since many on here have viewed them.

**benny** · 02-08-2004

I totally understand,the card is not for me. I was approached because the alternative was amazingly costly. I personally don't watch much football but now where i live all the pubs have it,so many bar owners are effectivly forced into showing it.

Thanks for the word of warning,i will pass it on.

benny

**englishman64** · 03-08-2004

As a matter of interest Rolf whats the position if Benny shows the footie on TV Sport Romania (Saturday games were on last season evert week as well as some other games)
This channel is free to air, Romanian comentry a bit iffy though
Sorry to gatecrash this post but I was wondering if showing FTA stuff is legal

**benny** · 03-08-2004

Hi,
Ive seen in other forums that F.A.C.T have tried to fine pubs etc even if it is FTA.But i don't know if they were sucessful.

benny

**rolfw** · 03-08-2004

The problem is that the Premiership own the copyright to the matches and whilst they cannot stop a private person watching the matches when transmitted FTA, they will certainly try and enforce their copyright if it is being re-broadcast or used for public showing.

What teeth they have I don't know, you would probably get away with the first infringement, but whether you would on subsequent occasions, who knows.

**jimbo** · 03-08-2004

My concern is that while we hobbyists are normally left alone by the TV companies, as Rolf says, it doesn't go down well when commercial organisations start getting involved and charging for the programmes. This could have a knock on effect for us in thr end. Purely a selfish attitude I suppose.

**indios_se** · 07-08-2004

Originally Posted by jimbo

Agree with Rolf on this Benny. Premiership footy is possible with the right cam/card....but in English? Nah....possibly one channel occasionally. Then of course you can 'lose' the footy from time to time when there's a code change. AFAIK TPS in France may be showing prem footy next season and you would need a second mortgage for an official subscription.

actually canal + sport on canal digitals system carry at least on game in english on a saturday afternoon, and show most premiership plus games too.

gazbo34 · 08-08-2004

Benny,The following was taken from the den,it is in respect to a court case that had been taken out against a landlady who was showing saturday football in her pub with an official subscription card.Makes for interesting reading!!!!!The caes against the Pub landlady was in fact thrown out of court last week & I have seen an edited copy of the ruling ( I have this at work & will post it if anyone is interested). From what I can see, it was thrown out on the grounds that a subscription card was purchased legally & therefore the Landlady had done nothing dishonest. The judge went on to say that this is not to say that this will be the case in future! (as in the past there have been prosecutions where a pirate card was found). This has nothing realy to do with Sky from a legal point of view as they are vary rarely licensed to show a live 3pm match. It comes down to the FA & what they are arguing at the moment is that cards purchased in Europe are in fact breaching their copyright & depriving them of income if shown in mainland UK. On the other side of the coin, none of these European cards have been made illegal (proscribed), all of these service providers have paid royalties to the FA, some of them are sold on a world wide basis with no regard for territorial distribution rights & as was mentioned earlier, you can't copyright a time!!!. At the moment, if you purchase from a UK based company & get a proper vat receipt, then you can be seen to have "acted in good faith". Recently several UK dealers have been visited by Trading standards, the Police & Fact, We all await the outcome, but I suspect as in the past it will fade away until the FA are willing to spend a lot of money & issue a writ. At present they are paying FACT & have taken no one to court to my knowledge on their own..
We all just have to wait & see..

**jimbo** · 09-08-2004

Originally Posted by indios_se

actually canal + sport on canal digitals system carry at least on game in english on a saturday afternoon, and show most premiership plus games too.

Yep that's the one I was thinking of, thanks.

JFenlon · 11-08-2004

They show 3pm Saturday football in a bar near me every week - they use SuperSport (Greek, Irdeto 2) and whenever I've been in that's been with English commentary - last game i saw there was the Liverpool vs Newcastle match, last game of the season.

Not sure how much they pay for their subscription but it would seem it is available.

**rolfw** · 11-08-2004

@ Gazbo34,

As you know I am involved in the thread on Toe's and came to an entirely different conclusion on the judge's remarks. Bought in good faith does not apply when it becomes common knowledge that the practice is infringing local copyright, particularly as it is being rebroadcast. You can also bet your bottom dollar that the landlady was not paying the commercial rate for the card and so is breaking the T&Cs of the overseas provider.

As you say, Sky is not directly involved but I'm pretty sure will help fund any future cases, which may well have a different outcome.

**indios_se** · 14-08-2004

canal digital has to be the best, take just today

15:55 Premier League: Norwich-Crystal Palace
18:10 Premier League: Middlesbrough-Newcastle
20:10 Premier League: Manchester C-Fulham
22:10 Premier League: Portsmouth-Birmingham
00:15 Premier League: Tottenham-Liverpool

CET time zone

**rolfw** · 17-09-2004

From the Ealing Times

Licensee fined £2000 for illegal screening of match

By Dina Behrman

A LICENSEE from Radlett has become the first person in the country to be prosecuted for illegally screening a football match.

William Clark, manager of Ryans Freehouse in Watling Street, Radlett, was fined almost £2,000 for showing a Premiership game using a foreign satellite decoder. The action was brought by the FA Premier League.

Clark, who failed to show up at the hearing at St Albans Magistrates Court, was found guilty of illegally screening a foreign transmission of a Chelsea vs Leicester football match during the official closed period of 2.45pm to 5.15pm on a Saturday.

He was also found guilty of showing an England vs Wales rugby match on Sky, despite not having paid the subscription fee.

He was fined almost £2,000 and ordered to pay costs.

This one from The Licensee

Licensee fined for illegal football screening
Published 15th September 2004

A licensee has been punished for illegally showing Premier League football with a satellite decoder.

Stephen Seager of the Anchor Inn in Chelmsford, Essex, appeared at Witham Magistrates Court last week where he was ordered to pay a fine of £1,000 and £2,404.74 in costs to the Premier League.

Investigators from the Federation Against Copyright Theft (FACT) had visited the pub and found staff televising a match during the closed period, which runs from 2.45pm and 5.15pm on days when there is a full league fixture list.

They had spoken to Mr Seager prior to the visit and explained that using decoders was illegal.

Dan Johnson of the Premier League said: "Some licensees are still being hoodwinked but when it can be proved that they are knowingly breaking the law they will always be punished."

Mr Seager was not at the pub during the investigation and said he was not aware that the manager at the time was showing the game.

"This is a warning to all licensees that you cannot show the game during the closed period," he said. "It also emphasises that even if the licensee is not on the premises they are still responsible for what goes on in the pub."

Under section 297(a) of the Designs and Patents Act 1988 it is an offence to own a decoder. Section 297 states it is illegal to receive a programme with it.

FACT said there were more prosecutions to come over the next two months.

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