Music Plagiarism - How Common is it?

**rolfw** · 17-09-2009

The Current case featuring Cold Play and Joe Satriani, is just the last in a long list which have come to light, George Harrison, My Sweet Lord and the Chiffons, He's So Fine, being one of the most famous.

In this case Cold Play have, it is thought, paid a large sum of money out of court.

Here is a comparison, see what you think.

I have to confess that I'm not familiar with Satriani, nor his piece of music, and it is probable that Cold Play didn't know the piece of music.

Can we come up with any songs which owe something to previous songs, which perhaps have not been the subject of legal action?

**rolfw** · 17-09-2009

Here's an odd one, the sampled material was taken from an orchestral version of the Stones song and now the full credit is assigned to Jagger and Richards, with all royalties going to the Stones' publisher, even though it isn't from their original record and the Lyrics are from The Verve.

Andrew Oldham Orchestral version

Stones Original

The Verve Bitter Sweet Symphony

**Topper** · 17-09-2009

I am convinced some of the problems arise from subliminal audio input. A songwriter hears something on the radio passing through a room his brain interprets this as something nice and appropriate to his style and thinking he is creating a new tune and he bangs out a score.

Saw the Jersey Boys whilst in London last week, what a fantastic show about Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons. I was amazed at what the songwriter Bob Gaudio had written and sometimes produced for other artists. I am not aware of any plagiarism taking place but I did promise myself to look into it upon my return as some of the music like Sherry, Big Girls Don’t Cry, Can’t Take My Eyes off You was interspersed with other familiar stuff

**Channel Hopper** · 17-09-2009

Originally Posted by Topper

Big Girls Don’t Cry

Gaudio might have something over 10cc about that particular lyric.

**rolfw** · 17-09-2009

No, they changed it, to substantially change the meaning of the phrase CH.

Here's another possible influence on the Cold Play single.

This time with a Cat Stevens Song, although it's debatable whether a short musical phrase in a song is really plagiarism, if it is, then most modern song writers plagiarise.

**rolfw** · 17-09-2009

Elvis Costello - Pump it Up

Bob Dylan - Subterranean Homesick Blues

***BombedOne*** · 17-09-2009

Alphaville - Big in Japan=Son Dam Bi - Crazy

Vanessa paradis - be my baby= Pisces - when a star cries

Wham - Last christmas 3354flS1KJs = ZZtop - Rough Boy I1qkUZZ1aho

I'm collecting such a clones, have huge collection

**rolfw** · 17-09-2009

Just listened to the first one, not too sure, although there are some similarities, she's a cracker though.

I was thinking more of well known ones.

If you can include youtube numbers, it makes life easier. I've added a couple for you.

**T_G** · 17-09-2009

In the old days blues singer used to do this all the time, changing a bit here and there and coming up with new songs. I am absolutely sure that I read somewhere that John Mayall (Godfather of British blues) told Peter Green (Best ever white blues guitarist) that if he couldn't find an idea for a song he should simply tale a line of a song he likes and then work from it.

But here is one that I discovered a long time ago: Peter Gabriel took something from Hot Chocolates sexy thing for his Sledgehammer song (I think). Listen to that Chocolate instrumental section from about 2.30 onwards:

Tell me what you think

**rolfw** · 17-09-2009

Yep, although again, it may have been subconsciously and probably done at the production stage.

***BombedOne*** · 17-09-2009

To find similarities, you need to have musical ear.

I have such clones mp3-es coupled...

***BombedOne*** · 17-09-2009

Just listened to 1st song (I had no idea about what's coldplay, and I never listened to satriani also). As it seems, both songs are cloned from Billy Joel's "Honesty"

**rolfw** · 17-09-2009

Hmm, can't quite see that, although I guess there are the odd similarities.

***BombedOne*** · 17-09-2009

Yes.

We generally can divide similarities in songs of various artists into 4 categories:

1. Accidental plagiarism (George Harrison's song)

2. Legally purchased sample/phrase (Most of Will Smith's songs, say - Man in Black is based on "forgive me nots", Getting jiggy with it - on Sister's sledge's hit and so on).

3. Tricky plagiarism, but with copyright problems avoiding. There are international rules that define plagiarism. If I remember correctly, it is counted as plagiarism, if 4 beats in sequence are re-used. So it's very common practice to use 1-2-4 beats original, but insert the 3rd one slightly different, to avoid copyright problems (example: Ricci E Poveri - Sara perche ti amo vs. Madonna - True blue).

4. Direct plagiarism. Fragment of song, being completelly riped. Example - Cutting Crew - I just died in your arms tonight vs. Mika - Relax.

***BombedOne*** · 17-09-2009

Some funny examples:

_ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7b8mMeDsFE

Bjorn Ulvaeus (Yes yes, one from ABBA),had stolen soviet military song.

Enrique Iglesias also captured soviet song:

_ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fIQtT04UI0&feature=related

This one is definetly hot:

_ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns96BAOeoLc

Intro sounds very similar...

Let's check this:

_ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33XPuLXJ6p0

Wow, seems that jacko loved granny songs?

But again, that lady (Soviet-moldavian-romanian) artists, successfully cloned leonard kohen's "dance me to the end of love"

Original:

_ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zjLBWnZGTU&feature=related

Clone:

_ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZvSlwcWQOE

**rolfw** · 17-09-2009

Well it's a moot point whether George Harrison's plagiarism was accidental, as it pretty much takes the whole tune note for note.

Patrice Rushen's Forget me Nots was of course a sampled track, but I guess he paid for the privilege of using that, the original was one of my favourites, but I also like Smith's song.

I see your point on the Ricchi E Poveri, definitely very similar.

Hadn't heard the Mika song, but the beginning is near identical.

***dasteelman*** · 17-09-2009

my uncle is in a well known rock band from the 60's and even though they do the odd gig here and there...even now there are legal battles with their songs....its complete grey area every time a new case develops

***BombedOne*** · 17-09-2009

Well, my personal collection of clones has more than 200 songs in it. Just never had time (and motivation), to put up an website for it.

Here's pisces vs vanessa:

_ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BviPHknqGbY

check from 16th second.

And original:

_ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwKn6fhtxtQ

check from 46 second...

It should be noted, that vanessas song intro is heavily inspired by madonna's - material girl, which itself, can be tracked down to alicia bridges - I love the nightlife, from which, very popoular clone was made by lenny kravitz (It ain't over till it's over)

See, how things are complicated?

We only have 12 tones in music, popmusic develops so faster, that they wrote music using bruteforce note selection, so we got clones

***dasteelman*** · 17-09-2009

how the hell do you guys have time for an obsession for satellite...and for music...and I MEAN obsession pmsl

**T_G** · 17-09-2009

Of course one of the best known one was Chester Burnett AKA The Howling Wolf who made 2 successful claims against Led Zeppelin. One song was "Whole Lotta Love" and the other I am not sure.

Then there is what Elvis did, "stealing" a complete music genre and never even bothered to give at least some credit. If I was Little Richard I would be pissed off (which he is)

***BombedOne*** · 17-09-2009

Heh, I gained interest for satellite tv to be able watch more and more music channels

***tomthebomb1968*** · 18-09-2009

The Verve didnt make a penny from Bittersweet Symphony. The Stones originally offered a 50/50 split which Ashcroft accepted but then demanded the lot as it soared up the charts, not to mention the Ad revenue since. The legal ruling was that 47 out of 48 tracks layed down were original , by The Verve 1 was deemed as being owned by The Stones. Mick and Keith got the lot.

Source _http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1702513/famous_acts_of_plagiarism_within_the_pg5.html?cat= 17

**rolfw** · 18-09-2009

Yes as mentioned above, a strange ruling.

**Analoguesat** · 18-09-2009

The music stings on THX trailers is almost identical to the intro on Countdown to Zero, a 1985 track by rock band Asia

THX trailers:

_http://www.thx.com/cinema/trailers.html

Countdown to Zero:

_http://www.we7.com/track/Countdown-To-Zero?trackId=1437899&m=0

***compufunk*** · 18-09-2009

Originally Posted by T_G

Of course one of the best known one was Chester Burnett AKA The Howling Wolf who made 2 successful claims against Led Zeppelin. One song was "Whole Lotta Love" and the other I am not sure.

Led Zeppelin did quite a bit of that, as did Bob Dylan.

Some more uncredited covers by Led Zeppelin.....

Code:

    * "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" - A folk song by Anne Bredon, this was originally credited as "traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page," then "words and music by Jimmy Page," and then, following legal action, "Bredon/Page/Plant."
    * "Black Mountain Side" - uncredited version of a traditional folk tune previously recorded by Bert Jansch.
    * "Bring It On Home" - the first section is an uncredited cover of the Willie Dixon tune (as performed by the imposter Sonny Boy Williamson).
    * "Communication Breakdown" - apparently derived from Eddie Cochran's "Nervous Breakdown."
    * "Custard Pie" - uncredited cover of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down," with lyrics from Sleepy John Estes's "Drop Down Daddy."
    * "Dazed And Confused" - uncredited cover of the Jake Holmes song (see The Above Ground Sound Of Jake Holmes).
    * "Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" - uncredited version of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down."
    * "How Many More Times" - Part one is an uncredited cover of the Howlin' Wolf song (available on numerous compilations). Part two is an uncredited cover of Albert King's "The Hunter."
    * "In My Time Of Dying" - uncredited cover of the traditional song (as heard on Bob Dylan's debut).
    * "The Lemon Song" - uncredited cover of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" - Wolf's publisher sued Zeppelin in the early 70s and settled out of court.
    * "Moby Dick" - written and first recorded by Sleepy John Estes under the title "The Girl I Love," and later covered by Bobby Parker.
    * "Nobody's Fault But Mine" - uncredited cover of the Blind Willie Johnson blues.
    * "Since I've Been Lovin' You" - lyrics are the same as Moby Grape's "Never," though the music isn't similar.
    * "Stairway To Heaven" - the main guitar line is apparently from "Taurus" by Spirit.
    * "White Summer" - uncredited cover of Davey Graham's "She Moved Through The Fair."
    * "Whole Lotta Love" - lyrics are from the Willie Dixon blues "You Need Love."

As mentioned, its a grey area. Music has evolved by people taking parts of other peoples music/ideas and changing them a little.

The whole folk scene (Including Blues) which from which rock, pop etc emerged from is based on this principle.

I'm sure Howling Wolf himself borrowed/stole a lot of his ideas from other Blues artists who were probably long dead when he took Zeppelin to court. Robert Johnson was probably one of the most indirectly copied musicians of his era/genre.

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