Diesel versus Petrol ?

***Marts*** · 14-10-2006

Biodiesel at petrol stations in Malta

**PoloMint** · 14-10-2006

It's in a few stations here too. Not a viable long term alternative to crude oil based fuels I'm afraid. If we all used it for our cars and lorries there simply wouldn't be enough vegetable oil to go around, even if seed was grown just for that purpose it's unlikely there could ever be enough produced to meet worldwide demands.

Still it's a neat way to recycle old oil

***Marts*** · 14-10-2006

I'm trading our car in shortly for a diesel version of same. I'm cautious about the claims made in this article that it's actually better than ordinary diesel

Any car mechanics out there than substaniate these claims

Cheers

**rolfw** · 14-10-2006

Channel Hopper has tried the vegetable oil I believe, I'm sure he'll comment when he sees this.

***Marts*** · 14-10-2006

This is veggy oil that's been used for cooking, from hotels, McDonalds and the like. To the best of my knowledge it's collected by the firm concerned and no payment made. Not a bad little business

**rolfw** · 14-10-2006

I'd like to use the oil from the onion bhaji factory, would certainly make me popular with the people behind me in traffic.

spiney · 14-10-2006

Interesting veggie-diesel link:

Biofuels Learning Site with Tutorials .

The whole point about the Diesel - of course - is that it runs more economically than the Otto engine, which - as oil becomes scarcer - will be increasingly important!

**dig deep** · 14-10-2006

add a centiliter aceton to a full tank

Works really good

**Channel Hopper** · 14-10-2006

Originally Posted by rolfw

Channel Hopper has tried the vegetable oil I believe, I'm sure he'll comment when he sees this.

Mr Diesel based his high compression engine on fuels derived from vegetable matter some 90 years ago, however the petroleum companies saw the benefits once the prototypes were running.

I would suggest only older engines are run on alternative non-mineral oils, the newer ones have much higher pressure injection systems that require the special lubicants that are present in the fuel at the pumps. Additionally any temperature changes have a direct impact on the ability for the chip oil to be sucked from the tank to the engine, and night-time/winter may cause the stuff to solidify in the fuel lines.

Of course any manufacturers warranty goes out of the window, and you should notify your friendly Customs and Excise officer of your weekly use of oils that are sourced outside the garage forecourts.

malcolm7753 · 14-10-2006

hi ive been running my citreon zx on 3litres of cooking oil to 10 litres of diesel for 6 months now and it runs better with more power, apart from the smell its great

**RedDevil_UK** · 14-10-2006

i was going to mention the smell too... i followed a car (strangley a citreon too...ummm)
and it smelled like a really dirty chippy.. lard etc..

i was many cars behind at first and wondered what the hell the smell was... untill i got right behind it and the guy had a big sticker on the back boasting about the cooking oil...

sorry, but they will have to do better than that before im tempted

***Marts*** · 14-10-2006

Interesting debate this, especially the link provided by spiney. Just learned that many of the newer type buses in Malta fitted with Fiat engines are being monitored using only EORC Groups biodiesel. We wait and see

**Channel Hopper** · 14-10-2006

Originally Posted by RedDevil_UK

i was going to mention the smell too... i followed a car (strangley a citreon too...ummm)
and it smelled like a really dirty chippy.. lard etc..

Using second hand oil does make the exhaust smell of what was being fried in it, fish shops, and some curry houses should be avoided.

Originally Posted by RedDevil_UK

untill i got right behind it and the guy had a big sticker on the back boasting about the cooking oil...

At least it wasn't mine then

gazzz · 14-10-2006

try _http://jouneytoforever.org/ethanol.html a lot of info on eco fuel

**PaulR** · 14-10-2006

Although they can both be used in a diesel engine there is big difference between straight vegetable oil (SVO) and biodiesel.

SVO suffers badly from turning solid in fuel tanks and you can easily end up with having to flush absolitely everything through. Biodiesel is SVO that has been through a process (esterification? I forget) which removes part of the oil chain and makes it more amenable to the complete fuel system. Having said that, it's not all engines that can take 100% biodiesel as it can attack seals quite aggressively I believe.

Interestingly, Tescos in the northwest now sell diesel fuel with biodiesel mixed in. I thinks it's only 5% but it's a start.

As CH says, don't try SVO on the modern high pressure engines (common rail, pump duse etc), only older mechanically injected engines. I also believe that those with Lucas pumps shouldn't use SVO, only Bosch pumps.

**gameboy** · 15-10-2006

The tax man won't be long in stopping people using old oil for free.

I think at present you have to tell them if you're running on bio diesel.

Add to that the local chippie, chinese will start charging when the demand steps up.

**PaulR** · 15-10-2006

Originally Posted by gameboy

I think at present you have to tell them if you're running on bio diesel.

Not exactly. If you buy your biodiesel from the pump at a forecourt then it will be duty paid, if you tip your SVO into the tank after buying cooking oil from Tesco's, or even filtered old chippy oil, then yes you should.

***Oily*** · 15-10-2006

I've been using Bio diesel(reclaimed oil) now for the last few months and in their promo leaflet it says its suitable for all modern cars or at least 10yrs or younger.Cars with rubber fuel pipes should avoid using it.The car is more responsive and it seems to have "softened" the engine whilst ticking over.
Even my mate who's a diesel expert(runs his own diesel engine shop) was impressed with the stuff,"lots of lubrication in it" he said!!
He never mentioned that i shouldn't be using it and he knows all there is to know about diesels.

***Marts*** · 15-10-2006

Originally Posted by Oily

I've been using Bio diesel(reclaimed oil) now for the last few months and in their promo leaflet it says its suitable for all modern cars or at least 10yrs or younger.Cars with rubber fuel pipes should avoid using it.The car is more responsive and it seems to have "softened" the engine whilst ticking over.
Even my mate who's a diesel expert(runs his own diesel engine shop) was impressed with the stuff,"lots of lubrication in it" he said!!
He never mentioned that i shouldn't be using it and he knows all there is to know about diesels.

Have heard similar positive reports Oily (appropriate username LOL) from users here in Malta. I have e-mailed Fiat Turin asking how their 1.3 multijet TD will perform with biodiesel, as the worlds smallest diesel engine.

Regards - Marts

**Channel Hopper** · 15-10-2006

Originally Posted by Marts

I have e-mailed Fiat Turin asking how their 1.3 multijet TD will perform with biodiesel, as the worlds smallest diesel engine.

Not quite true

_http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html

spiney · 15-10-2006

**Channel Hopper** · 15-10-2006

I thought they had discontinued the glow plug engines for aircraft some years ago. I still have a 2cm engine in the shed that I recall almost took my finger off when starting the damned thing.

***Marts*** · 15-10-2006

Originally Posted by Channel Hopper

Not quite true

_http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html

LOL .. I meant in a car .. and that's fiats claim not mine .. in 2004 when the panda won European car of the year

Good thread this .. maybe finish up with a car / motoring section

spiney · 16-10-2006

Stricly speaking, glow plug isn't "pure" Diesel, but you'd never get such a small engine to work any other way, as adiabatic working isn't possible at that size.

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