New Thinking ?

spiney · 14-10-2006

Just a comment on Mart's link, given at bottom of his posts .......

At first, I thought this was a spoof website, because it's so vague! However, De Bono does crop up - with his "trademark" twiddly arrows diagrams - so, I assume it must be genuine!

However, there are a few people - including me - who are not at all impressed by De Bono, regarding him as - perhaps - "slightly charlatan".

Twiddly arrows are all very well, but despite 30 years of "lateral thinking", what has it ever produced that's genuinely useful?

(that's a genuine - not rhetorical - question. If Mart can answer it, I'd be very grateful!).

***Marts*** · 14-10-2006

One example of many. BP many moons ago wished to build a trans Alaska pipeline. Their own top notch engineers said it wasn't feasible. Call in dear old Eddy, who meets up with his clocky mathematician friends from Cambridge uni. and hey presto now we hava de solution Mr BP

Oh, then ther'es the one about the amount of sugar in Heinz beanz

much less now mind, but have consumers noticed ?

BMW ?????

Of course, all this new thinking doesn't come cheap .. that's why he's a multi millionaire in Aussie land

A few years ago my gracious lady and I were privileged to attend a seminar at Malta uni given by De Bono. The subject was emotive words and how a simple word can significantly affect ones physiology.

The one about humour being what it is .. is for another day

Spiney, glad you brought it up http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/w/thumbs.gif bet the lateral thinking thingy will create debate.

Good night all, and may your God(s) go with you http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/praying.gif

spiney · 15-10-2006

Originally Posted by Marts

Of course, all this new thinking doesn't come cheap .. that's why he's a multi millionaire in Aussie land

Yes, that was pretty much my point! He's made huge amounts from various "management courses", and I agree with DIlbert about those ........

Some people used to call The Great One "Edward De Bogus" .......

Do you really think that "lateral thinking" suggested less sugar in Heinz Beans? Wasn't that - in fact - due to generally increasing awareness of the health consequences (eg, the type 2 diabetes "epidemic")?

(same goes for less salt, blood pressure connection .....).

And exactly what was that pipeline solution? You didn't say ........

(I googled very hard, for any such connection at all, and came up with ...... nothing).

***Marts*** · 15-10-2006

Afternoon from Gozo spiney. First orf I am not into lateral thinking, or new thinking for that matter. Prefer a good novel

Sugar content in beans? well how would you reduce the sugar content by 60% without the consumer noticing the difference ?

As for the Alaskan pipe line, not into quantum engineering personally so have no bloody idea mate

something about .. for every force there is an opposing force.

De Bono is often asked the same old question .. lateral thinking in one easy sentence please? = take off the blinkers

SIR JOHN HARVEY JONES of course considers his mentor to be De Bono, along with many other leading names and entrepreneurs

Maaarts

spiney · 15-10-2006

Hello Mart........

Reduce sugar in beans, with no noticable difference?

Well, for starters, there's lots of other sweetners, apart from sucrose .....

And what the heck is "quantum engineering"?

And yes, all these management types "mention" each other. But, I notice, you haven't answered anything I asked, that's a fine piece of lateral thinking .......

***Marts*** · 15-10-2006

Originally Posted by spiney

Hello Mart........But, I notice, you haven't answered anything I asked, that's a fine piece of lateral thinking .......

Told yah .. prefer a good Dan Brown novel. The sugar content thingy was carried out over a prolonged period, reducing by just 1% each time.

Now .. let me see .. mmmm just thinking .. get back to you later on this http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5elf/phone1.gif

spiney · 15-10-2006

Beans taste exactly the same to me, can't tell any difference at all!

Seems the food standards agency agrees:

Food Standards Agency - Survey of baked beans and canned pasta .

As for Heinz beans:

Branston Baked Beans - Review - Look out Heinz, the opposition is fighting back .

(Well done, "lateral thinking"!).

Just like The Wizard of Oz, De Bono is always telling us about "the wonderful wonderful things he does", but I've yet to see a single example!

***Marts*** · 15-10-2006

I don't see him as telling us all the wonderful things he does spiney. You obviously have a low regard for the chappie .. fine. As for me, I have a lot of respect for achievers .. be it De Bono .. Branson .. O'Leary or whoever http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/w/thumbs.gif

As for Prof De Bonos academic achievements? well !!!

Dr. de Bono was born in Malta. He was a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford, holds an M.A. in psychology and physiology from Oxford, a D. Phil in Medicine, a Ph.D. from Cambridge, a D. Des (Doctor of Design) from the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology; an LL.D. from Dundee. He holds professorships at the Universities of Malta, Pretoria, Dublin City University, and the University of Central England. The New University of Advancing Technology in Phoenix, Arizona appointed Dr. de Bono Da Vinci Professor of Thinking in May 2005.

His instruction in thinking has been sought by many organisations: Boeing, BT (UK), Nokia (Finland), Mondadori (Italy), Sanofi (France), Rolex (Switzerland), Total (France), Siemens (Germany), 3M (Germany), Ericsson (Sweden), NTT (Japan), GM, Kraft (Switzerland), Nestle (Switzerland), Bouygues Construction (France), Bosch (Germany), Goldman Sachs, Ernst & Young and many others.

Maarts

spiney · 16-10-2006

Yes Mart, a most impressive list of qualifications, so why can nobody give a single (valid!) example of "useful" lateral thinking?

For instance, if he'd made clever suggestions for "new strategies" in international diplomatic negotiating, so wars etc might become less likely, I'd immediately declare him a genius, but there's nothing of the sort. SImilarly, there's nothing technological either, no "imaginative solutions" for - say - energy/resource shortages, etc.

In fact, what he actually does is charge huge amounts of money for people to become official "lateral thinking trainers". These folk then - in turn - run short courses inside businesses, etc. A very nice and tidy scheme, with a guaranteed income. Very similar - in fact - to NLP, which makes similar outrageous claims, and has developed some rather nasty cultish aspects.

A few years ago, this would have been called "pyramid selling"!

We've had lateral thinking now for 30 years. My challenge still stands.

(I'm not particularly a "De Bono basher", but it's fair to point out that the emperor has no clothes!).

**mhku** · 16-10-2006

.. NLP.. has developed some rather nasty cultish aspects.

Can you site some examples and references to support this statement please.

***Marts*** · 16-10-2006

Good afternoon spiney. This will be my last post in this thread. I am unable to do other than point you toward source facts. Perhaps you would be better advised to ask the international big boys why they are willing to folk out big bucks to keep their shareholders happy

We have two international companies based here in Malta. S T Microelectronics of France and the Brandstätter Group of Germany. Needless to say, both these companies finances are an investors dream .. Prof Eddy

I always wonder why the likes of MG Rover never removed their blinkers

Ciao ciao - Marts

spiney · 16-10-2006

Originally Posted by mhku

Can you site some examples and references to support this statement please.

This aspect of NLP is highly prominent on the Web, just used google to find loads of references!

But, having said that, here's a link to the very comprehensive Wiki article:

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming .

also see: What About NLP? .

And this might be useful: neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) .

Also, the author of Combating Cult Mind Control says - in the preface - that he left NLP, due to the growing nasty cultish aspects!

I'm not saying nobody finds NLP useful, or that nobody should use it, but do be aware of what it actually is!

spiney · 16-10-2006

Originally Posted by Marts

Good afternoon spiney. This will be my last post in this thread. I am unable to do other than point you toward source facts.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what you HAVEN'T done!

I'm not trying to have "the last word", just get at the facts! If you - or anyone else - can find any examples, I'll still be very grateful.

spiney · 24-10-2006

I'm afraid I very much agree with this (quote):

Sometimes you think he must be making it up; but he's not. In the autumn of 1998, officials of the Department of Education were treated by their new Labour masters to a lecture by Dr Edward de Bono on his "six hats thinking system", which the doctor described as "the first new way of thinking to be developed for 2,400 years since the days of Plato, Socrates and Aristotle" ......... Yet the fact that the ruling class even invited a man who peddles such tosh is one sign among very many in this joyous, exhilarating, angry and deadly assault on the march of unreason that gullibility is stalking the planet.

Complete article:

-http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1141920,00.html

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