Law on Flag Burning

BarMoo

Please DO NOT politicise any comments or venture into religion - or Admin will forceably detach my manhood from my body and sell it on Ebay ;-))

One of the many things you cannot do to the spangly banner is the criminal act of burning it.

Guardian 27/11/06: Police want powers to criminalise flag burning in the UK.

I'll assume this includes the Union Jack/Nations Flags - so, your vote on the idea, if you please.

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Have Fun, Moo.

rolfw

I'm not sure, half of me says there should be no law, but then the other half says there should.

Is burning of a nation's flag legitimate freedom of speech/expression, or is it inciting nationalistic hatred?

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BarMoo

On a patriotic level, I would get the hump to see 'my' flag burnt (England or Jack); but, I would seek to know why the perp was doing it. I might even consider confronting them if it was happening under my nose.

But, here's one for you, what about if someone made a public display of burning an England footy shirt outside an English stadium during a tournament - what would you say or do then

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Have Fun, Moo.

petengade

With a little bit of luck this will happen.


http://gim.gupshup.org/gal/H/pakiter...70_6402529.JPG

T_G

In a way, there is no clear cut answer to this one. The act of burning a flag in any country is a powerful message of rebellion and dissent. As the flag represents the country and its values burning it should not be permitted. The "freedom of speech" argument...I think that when someone is burning your flag he/they are basically saying a lot of nasty things (which I cannot repeat here). So, my feeling is a) It should be a criminal offence. If someone still wants to do it as a protest against something really important he should then continue his protest by sitting in jail. B) If there is a law that says burning the flag is an offence, then that's it. Not every law we have is perfect, but we still have to accept it, otherwise there is anarchy. To change the law?? I think there are far more urgent and important issues for the goverment to sort out before spending time on this.

T_G I only believe stuff that comes straight from Mr. Horses mouth!

Marts

I've voted yes .. but civil law would be preferable to criminal law IMO

Humour is by far the most significant activity of the human brain.
Edward De Bono

AlexBellisBrown

I voted no, burning a flag does´nt really mean anything, does it? Your just wasting your own money on the flag?

Salty25

The police in recent years have been getting far to powerful and confident - I think it's about time someone tells them who makes laws, and that's the elected government at the HoP, not boys in blue who seem to have forgotten that their job is to protect our rights, NOT curtail them for their own convenience.

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BGonaSTICK

Only talking UK here, but no, should not be an offence.

The police are already far too powerful, and the Government way too oppressive.

If you take offence to someone burning the nation's flag, smack them in the gob instead.

When the cops turn up, demand that you be able electronically fingerprint them in the street to prove who they are, and then demand to have access to 6.5 million fingerprints in a national database.



OK, I'm having a 'special fag' now, to calm down...



Ahh, that's better.

rolfw

Well hope Mark doesn't mind, have added a not sure option.

I'm not sure about the law, not because I think the police have too much power, but because I think it may be a step too far on the route to big brother.

But perhaps we should consider relieving anyone found burning the Union Jack, of the stress and discomfort of living in this country. I'd chip in for their fare home, or in the case of them being a British citizen, I would assist in completing their renunciation of British citizenship and residency application for a country of their choice.

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BarMoo

I don't mind the boss adding his own option; providing no-one else votes like him, LOL.

Thing is - its a topical Q that easily invokes well-settled feelings. I read the article and thought WTF - NO! My reasons explained above. I am on Stick's side of the fence in some respects.

I would advise others joining the thread to vote 'Yeh' or 'Neh' for the purpose of the vote. I don't believe its that complicated.

I'm smoking a normal fag, BTW.

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Have Fun, Moo.

AlexBellisBrown

Its the first time i´ve ever heard an english person say the english police have too much power!

BGonaSTICK

Only because they've been granted it by this stupid Government. Half the ridiculous new laws that have been passed should be immediately scrapped, along with all the ancient ones which involve thruppenny bits etc.

Let's have Judge Judy-style summary executions of those individuals that people don't like the look of on a prime-time Channel 4 text-in show set in the jungle of Hounslow.



On a serious note, we should build some blinkin' prisons, lock up all the people that are terrorising that sub-section of the British public who just want to live a decent, honest life, and stop all this oppressive brain-washing crap about 'security'.

Humankind hasn't fundamentally changed that much in the last 50 years. Let's just take some sensible measures to control the advances in technology and stop talking sh!te.

Rant ends

Next week, I will be mainly ranting about the decline in the Dutch tulip export market.

petengade

It started with Maggie's private police army, beating up the Welsh miners, they even came from down south, all forgotten now. Tony uses real soldiers for his games today.

BarMoo

Flag burning to Maggie beating up miners

There's a bit of the tabboo creeping in here guys.

Don't care what member colour you are - my manhood (for what its worth) is not going on Ebay - so don't go there - just vote and add a lame comment if you so wish ;-))

I thank you.

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Have Fun, Moo.

maxpayne3

The National flag is a symbol of identity and should be the rallying point in times of trouble or conflict.
There are some things that must be sacrosanct if we are not to descend into anarchy.

Burning a flag is desecration and must be a criminal offence. It has nothing to do with police power.

Having said that however, I also have to say we in England don't actually have a flag.

The 'jack' is (now) a meaningless relic and reminder of feudal terrorism from an age when we were all slaves.

And the 'Cross of St. George' isn't English, it's French. Eleanor Of Aquitaine (The Crusade Queen) adopted it as her 'standard' after Richard brought it back from the Middle East.
She brought it to England with her second husband Henry II. (who,incidently gave us the 'Three Lions'). And George wasn't English, he was born in Cappadocia in Turkey.

But the thing that really grinds my cookies is seeing 'jacks' at England games (any sport)

Max

Not bad for a first post. Hee Hee

BarMoo

Sycophant

Everything until the history lesson was music to my ears ;-))

Maybe its just me as an expat that sees too much into my english/union flag. I guess while you are living in the UK - bereft of patriotic sensibilities - the Jack or Nations Flags mean nothing outside football or a royal event ;-((

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Have Fun, Moo.

maxpayne3

Hi BarMoo, During this years football World Cup our house had 350 George flags decorating it.
I love the flag as I love my Country and wont stand by while it is being vilified or desecrated. I take it personal.
It is the 'England' flag. It's just not 'English'.

To me that doesn't actually matter. What does matter is what it stands for. We, the English, have commited terrible atrocities through the ages, but not the flag. It stands for Freedom, It stands for Democracy, and most of all it stand as a sentinel proclaiming a nation that will not surrender to tyrrany, oppression or terr or ism. (Christ, I'm beginning to sound like Churchill )

Oh yeh, and I wish I lived where you do so that once before I die I could take my family to Love Parade!

Max

BarMoo

Not a family affair. I twice had the priviledge of being atop a float in the parade. One ends up with an egoistic Madonna-style attitude with all that loud music and near-on a million people at your feet (numbers have dwindled in recent years). Anyway, my ego sucked-up the event on both ocassions ;-)) Mind, I got told off twice - one year - for squirting water on the dehydrated, E-taking younglings aside our float. [read: finite resource of Evian].

Sorry, back to the flag.

I won't dwell on any deep meaning of the English flag - I will, however, stand by its significance as a national symbol presently - with or without fooball.

350? Churchill would be proud of you, LOL. Could you see the house under it all?

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Have Fun, Moo.

maxpayne3

Sounds worse than it was. most were bunting. But it was a lot.

Been watching Love Parade since 90/91 when they started to show it on ARD und ZDF. God bless Dr. Motte and Westbam for starting it. Hung my head in shame years ago when Police banned it in Newcastle for "Reasons of Public Safety". Yeh, right.
Went to the one in Leeds. Not bad, but met people who had been to the real thing and they weren't to impressed. Not with the size or the turnout, but the lack of proper organisation by Leeds city Council. Been nice talkin' to you BarMoo. TTFN.

Max

Salty25

While I admire your love of the flag, and ever so slightly frightened by it, to ban flag burning has very adverse side effects.

What if I was demonstrating against non-English ministers being able to vote on England-only issues in parliament, and to demonstrate my point I burn the flag to show this is how much I think the government value the interests of the English popuation - should I be arrested for burning my own national flag, misguided or otherwise, for such a political cause?

Really, the flag burning isn't the problem, it for what reasons that anyone would do such a thing. When these Al-Qaeda tunnel vision campaigners burn the flag, I would class this as 'incitement to racial hatred', and thus they are breaking the law on those grounds. The same would be the case if I burned the French flag because I didn't like the French.

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