Best Digiboxes for Fringe reception

***iceman*** · 10-10-2005

Originally Posted by bignick

Hi

[color=black]For me tuner sensitivity is measured in results!

I agree M8....good tuner is the one that delivers where others faill on the same setup..

@nopfusch
I am no expert on technical figures just an installer..Being an installer i get the chance to test different receivers on different setups...on this thread we simply discuss comparison between different Skyboxes performace from personal experiences..

**makum101** · 11-10-2005

Then maybe we should put some "technical figures" to the recievers we know to be good in fringe reception...

Andrew Steel · 12-10-2005

[QUOTE=nopfusch]Hi there,

Paging through of some specifications, I found that -65dBm is an ordinary tuner sensitivity. A -70dBm input sensitivity is a lot better and the highest input sensitivity I ever read was -78 dBm. And the lowest -60dBm.
Of course, to round-off the judgment of a tuner is stability and picture and sound quality, which is not so easy to define in numbers.

Nopfusch,

Could you tell us which receivers have these specifications?

Perhaps then we could compare performance against Sky digiboxes and see if the difference in input sensitivity is significant or not.

Thanks.

Andrew

**nopfusch** · 12-10-2005

Hi to all interested,

unfortunately, not all manufacturers state the tuner specification in full either on their sales pamphlet or in the manual. In the latter you find the specification in question under Tuner. I attach three samples. But the support sections of various manufacturers should give an answer about that vital parameter of a receiver, if that spec’ is missing. I contacted in the UK a company to enquire about the input sensitivity of the tuner of a product and received promptly the answer.

The manufacturer state usually a range, e.g. -25dBm to -65dBm. Reason: if a receiver receives a very strong signal, you see nothing. If you in center of a strong footprint with a big dish, the tuner 'blacks-out', I have been told. I have seen it on TV sets (terrestrial reception) but not on satellite receivers. Therefore -25dBm. The other limit is of course for us of more interest. But we cannot verify if that receiver really handles a weak signal of -xxdBm. And that’s why it is important to talk to someone, who has in fact worked/experienced that receiver to confirm a good reception.

It would be interesting if the forum would allow list of receivers (with brand & model name), where everybody here can enter his receiver model and the tuner sensitivity, (if given in the spec's) plus experience with other relevant comments. e.g.

ABC receiver model EFG, tuner –25dBm to –65dBm

HIJ receiver model KLM , tuner –25dBm to –65dBm.

I stay at 21 south 3 west. Satellite XYZ eastern hemisphere beam is at my location with 34 EIRP. I can receive that signal with ABC receiver any time, with receiver HIJ only at night time 0:00 to 04:00 local time. Frequency, polarisation, SR, FEC.

Or similar.

The manufacturer can’t really just put a figure in the tuners sensitivity. They know, they could be challenged. Therefore I don’t need to buy a suppliers half stock, to select a sensitive receiver. I can do some pre-selection, just as I would only buy a receiver with mechanical (and magnetic) polarizer control only.

regards

nopfusch

**nopfusch** · 12-10-2005

I wanted to separate the two items (from my previous post):
anyone with exeprience with a Manhattan PLAZA ST 500 on weak / fringe reception? I need polarize control and a good tuner. But the tuner is only -25dBM to -65dBM.
nopfusch

**nopfusch** · 23-10-2005

He, why is sudden silence around here?

I’m busy to collect the tuner spec’s from the receiver mentioned in this thread. But for some I don’t find even the webb address. So please send me the web address from ‘your’ receiver, if you want to know the input sensitivity of the tuner in your receiver.
Regards

nopfusch

**Topper** · 23-10-2005

Well yes it does seem quiet in responses although I am sure it is nothing personal. Many people are not that interested in the manufacturers claims... they do not always hold water in reality. They prefer to use it in anger and find the best. If it is of any interest my ID digital states the standard -25 to -65 dBm and here is another reason why not many replies, although some do have more than one digital receiver, many including myself do not thus are unable to establish any baseline for comparison.

**nopfusch** · 24-10-2005

thanks toppervte33h

I discovered at Kathrein and Hirschmann receivers another measurement unit in µV (micro Volt). See the reply below - very fast reply, questioned Sunday evening, very good Steffen & Hirschmann, thanks.

> die Umrechnung lautet: the conversion is:
> 1 dbµV = -109 dbm
> 0 dbm = 109 dbµ
>
> z.B. 44 bis 84 dbµV = -65 bis -25 dBm e.g 44 to 84 dbµV =
-25 to -65dBm. Note the dbµV have no minus sign.

> Es grüßt Sie freundlich With friendly greetings
>
> Steffen W....
> Service Center
> Hirschmann Automation and Control GmbH
> Hirschmann Competence Center

**llss** · 04-11-2005

triax dvb 2000 t cheap and yes it has built in modulator

**iggy** · 21-11-2005

I have an opportunity to buy Panasonic DSB31 but before i go for it i will have to know if is it any good for fringe reception. Please post back asap

rgds

iggy

***iceman*** · 21-11-2005

Although i dont have personal experience with DSB31,i have heard they dont have a good tuner & are not suitable for fringe reception...

***Zorba*** · 21-11-2005

Actually the tuners are not bad,but they have a software problem where they freeze up when going through weak channels or tv guide.They also have an overheating problem.Not recomended.

***devonbrown*** · 21-11-2005

I have just put an ad in for a Pace 2600C1 if you are interested

**iggy** · 21-11-2005

Thank you all guys, i have already forgotten of that offer and look for something else instead.

**iggy** · 23-11-2005

Guys i need very quick answer - Pace 2200 what is this worth?????? I can get it for 10 quits.

***bignick*** · 23-11-2005

Yeh, You're not being seen off. They're worth that and they have good tuners for Europe.....but they are sssssooooooo slooooowwww it's almost painful. Hope that helps

Originally Posted by iggy

Guys i need very quick answer - Pace 2200 what is this worth?????? I can get it for 10 quits.

**iggy** · 23-11-2005

Originally Posted by bignick

Yeh, You're not being seen off. They're worth that and they have good tuners for Europe.....but they are sssssooooooo slooooowwww it's almost painful. Hope that helps

Thanks. There is another thing that concerns me. According to some sources there are 2 different models in the same box labeled with 2200. The difference is that early model has better signal treshold but later one is not recommended. Have you got any idea whether it is true or not???? If so how can i distinguish between those 2 ?????

***bignick*** · 23-11-2005

Sorry mate I don't know about that one. Are you sure they don't mean the 2500? The only 2200 I've ever seen are black in colour.

Originally Posted by iggy

Thanks. There is another thing that concerns me. According to some sources there are 2 different models in the same box labeled with 2200. The difference is that early model has better signal treshold but later one is not recommended. Have you got any idea whether it is true or not???? If so how can i distinguish between those 2 ?????

**iggy** · 23-11-2005

Originally Posted by bignick

Sorry mate I don't know about that one. Are you sure they don't mean the 2500? The only 2200 I've ever seen are black in colour.

According to this source http://www.heyrick.co.uk/ricksworld/...x/intuner.html they come in one box. Perheps we have the same situation here as with Grundig GDS310. Still this is exactly the same box but they have different parameters. If you look round the back you will recognize which version you deal with by the last digit of model number. for example 310/2, 310/3 etc. Thats why i was wondering if Pace boxes had the same type of marking.

***bignick*** · 23-11-2005

I dunno really. I know that the 2500 has a poor reputation however I have only ever seen the dark coloured version - the S4. I have to say that I think that it has been given a bad rap. Whilst I wouldn't make it a first choice box, I donot think it is all that bad out here in cyprus. Now I have NEVER seen the light coloured one out here - I assume for good reason!

Never seen the site you mention before. Its quite good, but avoid the dsb-30. A recent software update has rendered them all but useless in fringe areas.

Originally Posted by iggy

According to this source http://www.heyrick.co.uk/ricksworld/...x/intuner.html they come in one box. Perheps we have the same situation here as with Grundig GDS310. Still this is exactly the same box but they have different parameters. If you look round the back you will recognize which version you deal with by the last digit of model number. for example 310/2, 310/3 etc. Thats why i was wondering if Pace boxes had the same type of marking.

**iggy** · 23-11-2005

Anyway i am in a huge dilemma because it's not common to buy Skybox on local Ebay

especially for this symbolic price. I think i'll take that risk and buy this receiver. If any of you have some experience with that box, please let me know what to expect from it.

***iceman*** · 23-11-2005

Originally Posted by bignick

avoid the dsb-30. A recent software update has rendered them all but useless in fringe areas.

I wouldnt say they are useless in fringe areas...OK they lock up if the signal is low but work perfectly ok on 4.2m dish...

***bignick*** · 23-11-2005

I see your point but they are terribly annoying when you have a dish that brings in certain channels at certain times of the day, it means you have to know exactly when those channels are off limits. Every single person I know who had one of these receivers have now gone over to Pace. Shame really, they were head an shoulders above all the other stuff in their day and if the glitch hadn't struck they would still be the box of choice!

Originally Posted by iceman

I wouldnt say they are useless in fringe areas...OK they lock up if the signal is low but work perfectly ok on 4.2m dish...

**rolfw** · 23-11-2005

Originally Posted by nopfusch

thanks toppervte33h

I discovered at Kathrein and Hirschmann receivers another measurement unit in µV (micro Volt). See the reply below - very fast reply, questioned Sunday evening, very good Steffen & Hirschmann, thanks.

> die Umrechnung lautet: the conversion is:
> 1 dbµV = -109 dbm
> 0 dbm = 109 dbµ
>
> z.B. 44 bis 84 dbµV = -65 bis -25 dBm e.g 44 to 84 dbµV =
-25 to -65dBm. Note the dbµV have no minus sign.

> Es grüßt Sie freundlich With friendly greetings
>
> Steffen W....
> Service Center
> Hirschmann Automation and Control GmbH
> Hirschmann Competence Center

Sorry, only just noticed this conversion, but as far as I was aware, the conversion was 0 db/millivolt equalled 60 db/microvolt., not as mentioned above http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/808

**iggy** · 24-11-2005

Guys, i've just been sent a photo of that Pace receiver and it turned out that it wasn't model 2200 but 2400 in fact. Is this model any better or even worse?????

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