2.4m CM or 3m Prodelin?

Sool

Hi there,

Im looking to boost my reception here on Crete. Seems we're in a bit of a cold spot here south of Greece/Italy and close to Sicily so Im not looking for 2D, but was hoping to get everything else.

What do you think will be better, a 2.4m offset Channel Master, or a 3m prime Prodelin? They both seem to be in my budget (Prodelin seems a bit cheaper) and both seem to have good reputations, so Im really just interested in which would perform better.

If I still cant get everything besides 2D with either of these then so be it. These are going to be hard enough to hide as it is I just want to give myself the best chance upto a certain size, and I think 3m is it really. On the other hand, I could probably go a little higher in price if I had to if anyone has any other suggestions. But I really do want to keep size in mind.

From talking to local guys there really doesnt seem to be that many larger dishes around so Im shooting in the dark a little, unfortunately. I think there are a couple of locally made 2.4 offsets around but they do have some loss at times apparently. Im not sure as to the install quality or the other equipment used though.

Mine will be going on a Pace 2600C and, I dunno, an invacom quad I suppose?

Thanks for any help guys.


Edit: BTW, right now on my local 1.2 I get 2A south, 2B south, pretty much all of S1 I think, and some of 2B north. I get none of 2A north or Fixed. Many thanks.

iceman

3.0m prime focus Prodelin sounds like a better choice..
I use a 3.0m prime focus Channel Master and receive 2D almost all day in Kyrenia Cyprus...you should be Ok with 3.0m Prodelin+quad invacom if the installation & alignment is done accurately...

Sool

Thank you for the reply Iceman. I didnt know CM do 3m prime. Would this be similar performance to the Prodelin or better?

I noticed in another thread that the Prodelin can be had from Germany for 1200euro + VAT + shipping. Do you know off the top of your head anywhere the CM can be had from and for roughly how much?

Many thanks again.

snap

Currently the largest ChannelMaster is 2.4 metres offset. I think this is since they went bust and were bought out by Andrew Corp.
Prodelin dishes are virtually identical throughout the range to ChannelMaster, they are both Glass Fibre Reinforced Polyester SMC.
Prodelin 3.0m gain midband is 49 dBi, ChannelMaster 2.4m much lower at 47.6. On this basis you should choose the Prodelin. It will also be easier to transport with its eight panels, but harder to assemble.

iceman

As Snap has already pointed out,Channel Master has been bought by Andrews and they do not manufacture the 3.0m prime focus anymore..

Likvid

You should not just look at gain figures as they don't say much for real scenarios, just a hint.

We have two Channel Master 3.0M here on the Swedish Broadcasting Television and they are average performers due to the petals and bad feed design.

They had to modify the feed design a bit.

The Prodelin will probably be worse because it contains even more petals and the errors will be more if you dont assemble it right.

I never liked petalized dishes, they are only good for transportation and if you need a petalized dish keep it to the minimum, the Channel Master is the closest one with only four petals but the dish isnt made anymore since ages.

Why don't you buy the Aerial Oy 3.0m aluminium antenna?

It's one piece and great performers, they are commercial quality.

The 3.0m Aerial cost about 1,500 EURO plus shipping, they also have 4.2m and 5.4m antennas.

Sool

Oooohh, now I have to think more! Heh, oh well, more information is always a good problem. To be honest though Im a bit of a newbie and Im going to have to make as informed a decision as I can from forums. So could I trouble others for opinions on Likvids new info?

One thing that struck me is that I was going to put this on a roof. Dunno how id get the Aerial one up there being 175kg in one piece but I guess if performance is going to be significantly better then I will find a way.

Ignoring the weight problem, I take it the Aerial will be much easier to install? Im not going to attempt it myself, but Im not sure as to the depth of expertise on this island so if a petalized dish is a major pain thats a negative against it.

Very much appreciated guys. Im amazed there is an entire forum on the internet as specific as fringe reception of Sky!

BTW, if... just if...... *could* an intelligent, enthusiastic, interested newbie do this job with some strong friends? I would definitely give it a go if it was a smaller dish but from what you guys say in other threads big dishes are another thing entirely.

izefisherman

I don't think the dish itself is 175kg, that is likely the total weight with feed supports and the heavy-duty Az/El mount.

A 3m Aerial was decommissioned here nearby a while ago and two men were able to unfasten and lift it down from the mount without too much trouble.

Very solid dish with an all aluminium rear support structure:

Attached Images

	AS30_front.jpg (55.8 KB, 97 views)
	AS30_back.jpg (60.5 KB, 84 views)

Likvid

Their 2.4m dish is the best dish i ever seen and it performs damn good.

The design is excellent because they have a rim around the dish to attach the mount to, the mount never touch the dish itself.

Great design.

Installed several of those 2.4m dish in the northern parts of Sweden to cable headends.

izefisherman

Exactly, this has been proven many times when people have picked up 15-20 year old decommissioned specimens for free. Paint is almost gone, dish looks ugly, but the performance is still like brand new. They just don't lose shape over time like the ones with a single support ring on the back of the dish. Just a new spray paint job is needed to keep wifey happy

Likvid

So did you go to Aerial yourself to pick up your 2.4m dish or did you have it shipped?

Do you have any more documents from them?

izefisherman

No, it is an old discarded dish I got for free. I hauled it home the 90 kms on a 245cm wide car trailer.

I started out with an old Aerial 1.8m that came with the polarmount, also discarded after many years of service. It wasn't powerful enough to bring in all Astra 2D transponders, I only got the horizontals with it and perhaps an hour of verticals from time to time during mid-winter.

A friend of mine first picked up the 2.4m with polarmount in his village. Later I was offered to remove the 3m in the pictures from an old CATV headend. It was too big for me so I swapped it with the friend for the 2.4m I have now. Polarmounts for the 1.8m and 2.4m are identical so the swap was only a matter of plug-and-play. My friend is modifying his polarmount to suit the 3m dish. The 1.8m dish without a mount went to another friend... Large used dishes are often offered free to remove because they aren't needed anymore and people/companies just want to get rid of them.

But you can still buy the Aerial satellite dishes new, and recently a Finnish webstore has started selling them to private persons again.

I also know of one person in Belgium that recently ordered a 2.4m with Az/El mount straight from the factory in Järvenpää. It was shipped in a wooden crate on a lorry. Normally however, the factory doesn't sell straight to private customers.

Here is the finnish webstore selling them:

_http://www.satman.fi/index.html?lang=fi&target=d17.html

Scroll to bottom of the page to find the large dishes. Select "Lisää tietoa..." for the dish in question. Option prices can then be found using the "Valitse versio" scroll-down window.

I haven't got any other documents than those available on the Aerial website, is there something specific you are looking for Likvid? I can ask around on the finnish forums, I know there is something to be found.

Sool

This is a very useful thread for me. Thank you to everyone that has posted in it. I have a question: how do you guys find these retailers of big dishes? Word of mouth? Industry connections? I have found it very difficult to find anything via google. For example the Prodelin I was talking about I found the link to the retailer in another thread. It just feels like I might be missing out on options?

jno

Just found this thread - can anyone out there publish a list of suppliers in Europe of dishes >= 2.4m

- I am in the same boat at Sool, no luck finding anyone willing to sell a large dish andit is always nice to compare prices!

snap

Have a look at _www.tripointglobal.com/prodelin.html
There may be a distributor list on the site, but if not, e-mail them and they will tell you the nearest supplier. Manufacturers are always happy to do this.
Prodelin have the best build quality in the larger sizes, they are used by broadcasters, unlike other brands you may be offered. There's always been a price advantage over ChannelMaster, though quality is similar.

Prodelin

PM me and i can get you in contact with a guy in Italia that have 3.7m Prodelin in stock.

vasili01

ive used the 2.4 offset from cm and 3m 3.4m 3.7m from prodelin here in greece were i live (kos island) if you cant get a 3.7m prodelin wich is allot better than the 3m 3.4m go for the cm from personal expirience the 2.4 cm performes beeter than the 3m 3.4m beleive me!!

deepbluesky

Since Aerial Oy is beeing recommended in this thread i would have one question:

Which way would you motorize the AS24 so that even elevations down to 0°-5° would be possible ?

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charly20

hi,

I am the Belgian fellow that ize mentioned.

Yes, I bought a new Aerial Oy 240cm PFA. It is an excellent dish. I am extremely happy with it.

I use it for Nilesat reception here in Belgium (for Showtime).

The nice thing with Aerial Oy is that you can greatly communicate with their engineers. This helps to choose dish, mount it, order a special paint colour etc...

charly20

@ deepbluesky:

just ask one of their engineers.

I'll send you his contact info. Just PM me (maybe in DXTV.de, since I go there more often).

Best,

deepbluesky

@charly20:
If i was planning in buying one in the next time (maybe in some years) i surely would have contacted Aerial Oy directly. I was hoping that somebody had tried this before.

What i want to find out is, which bigger dishes are able to cover the whole reception window that occurs even in the most southern european points which means that elevations of 0-50° and azimuth values of +/- 0-85° should be available. Otherwise the most eastern and western satellites could not be aimed to.

By the way, which f/D has the AS24 ?

P.S.: I wonder if the 2.4m Aerial Oy AS24 would perform so much better than a portuguese Famaval 2.30m that is using somebody right now in Thessaloniki. His results are just unbelievable. Some examples: 100.5E which is very hard to catch because of its low elevation of 1.2°, Full 83E Tata Sky on India Beam, Full 62E Iran Beam, Full 23.5E, Full 4W Amos 2 Israel Beam and even some frequencies of the 22W West Africa Beam. By the way no sign of Astra 2D.

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charly20

@ deepbluesky:

The f/D of the AS24 is 0.38.

The reflector cannot go up to horizontal, due to construction. So I don't know exactly the reception window. As said, Aerial could answer that easily.

Regarding how it compares to the Famaval 230cm, I don't know. What I do know, is that, when I received the AS24, I was extremely impressed with the signal gain on 7°W. I could not believe it, having had a Gibertini 150 and a Jonsa 180, both with poor results. So you would need to compare both the Aerial and the Famaval in the same garden in order to appraise the quality of each. I am sure that the Famaval is not a bad dish.

charly20

Here a multifeed for the Aerial AS24:

_http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=feedew1.jpg

deepbluesky

Thanks for the info charly20

Concerning your gain rise from the Gibertini OP150, no wonder since the surface of the Aerial Oy AS24 is more than 2.5x bigger.

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I demand: Pay-TV subscriptions worldwide available - with any receiver - just like print magazines !
Free access for free citizens now !

pjgregory

Hi Prodelin

In post #16 on this thread, you mention that you know of someone in Italy who stocks 3.7m Prodelin dishes. I live in Italy and am interested in buying one!

However, since I am new to the forum, I cannot send private messages. As a reqular contributor, can you send a PM to me? I have tried several times to enable my VCard to that others can read my e-mail adress and contact me directly.

Moderator: This is the second thread on which I have been unable to contact people who have useful information that could help with my problem or visa versa. Could you please look into why my VCard does not work, or do I have to wait another 3 weeks before I can communicate?


PJG