Astra 2 D Reception Southern Europe

ralphmagno

Specialist Contributor
Messages
995
Likes
15
My Location
naples italy
#1
hi to all,
finaly the 4 m IRTE solid dish went up a few days ago and no bbc 1 or 2 ans no itv.
we are using c120 flange invacom .3 db noise figure a solid dish prime
focus.
we have about 800 kg of base and dish support and we fine tuned it for astra 2d transponders after talking to mr iceman in cypres and still nothing.
according to maps rome 2.4 to 3 meter is ok,calabra is 200 km south of us is ok as well with a 3.5 to 4.o mt dish and even cypres is 1500 km south of us and with a 3.8 to 4.0 dish its on as well.
if anyone has any e-addresses of anyone in calabria or south of rome as well with a big dish and is geting bbc 1 and 2 and itv we will go there and see it working.
we have had 3 experts with more that my 20 years looking at this and we are aligned up on and perfect.
please anyone help in any way with any information
thanks
email address removed A/S

thanks
ralph and carl in naples italy
 

Analoguesat

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
45,485
Likes
8,221
Location
Scottish Borders
My Satellite Setup
TM 5402HD
Skybox F3
Sky+ UK.
My Location
Scottish Borders
#2
Do not post your email addy on the forum - any non personal info should be available to all our members
 

Analoguesat

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
45,485
Likes
8,221
Location
Scottish Borders
My Satellite Setup
TM 5402HD
Skybox F3
Sky+ UK.
My Location
Scottish Borders
#3
ralphmagno said:
hi to all,
according to maps rome 2.4 to 3 meter is ok,calabra is 200 km south of us is ok as well with a 3.5 to 4.o mt dish and even cypres is 1500 km south of us and with a 3.8 to 4.0 dish its on as well.
As has been explained to you before ralph, in extreme fringe reception conditions what is happening 200 km down the road is totally irrelevant to whats happening in a particular location.

Minute imperfections in the manufacture of the satellite reflector panel can cause local "hot and cold spots" and southern Italy is obviously in a very cold spot for 2D.
 

dave branson

Regular Member
Messages
316
Likes
0
My Location
Florence Italy
#4
Very true,2d can be received easily in Italy in some places and not at all 100 km,s further south,ie Pisa is a Hot spot,Florence is sporadic,best in the winter,Rome has been addressed many times on the forums,as a no go,Naples I would expect poor results even with a 4m dish.
The cut off line for 24/7 reception seems to be a line from Pisa,running noth east to Bologna.
 

dxsat

Specialist Contributor
Messages
745
Likes
70
My Satellite Setup
Snap's setup: (In Spain) Humax HDR, Prodelin 1.8m dish + Invacom QDF-031 + CM feed, (In UK) CallFlow VDSL + EE 4G, Sky Q, YouView HD, Mac OSX, iOS
My Location
UK: Tonbridge, Kent. Spain: Madrid.
#5
Some questions, I've looked in your old posts and cannot find any details.
What Digibox, model of Invacom C120 and which feedhorn are you using?
Have you looked up your skew on an online calculator and set the LNB to this?
Have you set the ring on the feedhorn correctly to match the f/d ratio of the dish?
 

Analoguesat

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
45,485
Likes
8,221
Location
Scottish Borders
My Satellite Setup
TM 5402HD
Skybox F3
Sky+ UK.
My Location
Scottish Borders
#6
dave branson said:
Very true,2d can be received easily in Italy in some places and not at all 100 km,s further south,ie Pisa is a Hot spot,Florence is sporadic,best in the winter,Rome has been addressed many times on the forums,as a no go,Naples I would expect poor results even with a 4m dish.
The cut off line for 24/7 reception seems to be a line from Pisa,running noth east to Bologna.
There you go ralph - from our resident Italy expert, either put a real monster of a dish up, slingbox the signals from somewhere more favourable, or do without.

I would not be at all surprised if the next generation of Astra 2 satellites either had much tighter footprints anyway so you may end up spending 1000's of euros now just to totally lose any chance of signals 4 years down the line, or to have 2 or more spotbeams with frequency reuse between them (a la the ill fated Astra 1K) again losing forever any chance of the uk signals :toke:
 

Coviello

Regular Member
Messages
82
Likes
23
Location
Potenza (Italy)
My Satellite Setup
Prodelin 11ft (335 cm)
Windows 2000 XP
My Location
Southern Italy
#7
In Potenza (Basilicata, about 150 km from Naples) no signal from Astra 2D with an 11 ft (335 cm) Prodelin antenna. The same antenna ensures 24/7 reception of many other satellites, namely Iran (62East), Amos2 (Israel Beam), Thor 2 North( Horizontal), Sirius 2-3.

In Assisi (near Perugia), a (locally made) 180 cm prime focus dish + invacom 0.3 is enough to receive Astra2 (BBC1,2) from 12h -17 h.

Coviello
 

paul682

registered
Messages
130
Likes
0
My Satellite Setup
3.7 MESH
My Location
italy
#8
in CIVITANOVA M. Central italy

no trace of ASTRA 2 D with 180 prodelin monopiece fiberglass

ok with IRAN mux on 62 east

no trace of ISRAELI BEAM of AMOS

enjoy

ciao)(-red)(-red)(-red
 

dxsat

Specialist Contributor
Messages
745
Likes
70
My Satellite Setup
Snap's setup: (In Spain) Humax HDR, Prodelin 1.8m dish + Invacom QDF-031 + CM feed, (In UK) CallFlow VDSL + EE 4G, Sky Q, YouView HD, Mac OSX, iOS
My Location
UK: Tonbridge, Kent. Spain: Madrid.
#9
Shows how crazy 2D reception is:
Civitanova M is only 150 km east of Assisi on my map.
100 km from my location, dish size can be reduced from 180 cm to 120 cm, south west of here, that is moving away from the footprint centre.
 

Analoguesat

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
45,485
Likes
8,221
Location
Scottish Borders
My Satellite Setup
TM 5402HD
Skybox F3
Sky+ UK.
My Location
Scottish Borders
#10
snap said:
Shows how crazy 2D reception is:
Civitanova M is only 150 km east of Assisi on my map.
100 km from my location, dish size can be reduced from 180 cm to 120 cm, south west of here, that is moving away from the footprint centre.
Perfect example of extreme fringe reception. Similar effects have been noted in southern Spain :D
 

ralphmagno

Specialist Contributor
Messages
995
Likes
15
My Location
naples italy
#11
hi to all

we have a IRTE 4 meter 2 section solid dish, the 2 half sections were bolted together and it took 5 men and a boy to lift it into the base mount.the dish is good for 160 km wind and we are using the orriginal feed horn that came with the dish.
all metal construction.
we are using small cable runs for all 4 cables
LNB is a new invacom qtf-031 .3 db noise figure with 4 outputs
hor high and hor low
vert high and vert low
using a spectrun the lignal on astra 2d is there but its so low it will nor drive anything
we are also using panasonic 30 and 31 model units as well.
the teck that installed the system is einstine in our area
we builds uplinks and microwave links in most of the naples area
tv transmitters and almost anything tha transmitts up to lasers.
if you need any more information i am in the usa now but will get it
thanks to any and all inputs from all of you
ralph:eek:;)
 

dxsat

Specialist Contributor
Messages
745
Likes
70
My Satellite Setup
Snap's setup: (In Spain) Humax HDR, Prodelin 1.8m dish + Invacom QDF-031 + CM feed, (In UK) CallFlow VDSL + EE 4G, Sky Q, YouView HD, Mac OSX, iOS
My Location
UK: Tonbridge, Kent. Spain: Madrid.
#12
Why did you use a quattro LNB instead of the quad?
If it is going through a multiswitch there will be insertion loss which you wouldn't have with a Quad. Have you set skew correctly?
 

billnot

Growing Old Disgracefully
Messages
242
Likes
0
My Satellite Setup
Famaval 3,1, IP9000HD plus other FTA and Linux boxes - Astra 1&2, Hotbird, Hispasat
My Location
Benitachell, Alicante, Spain
#13
snap said:
Why did you use a quattro LNB instead of the quad?
If it is going through a multiswitch there will be insertion loss which you wouldn't have with a Quad. Have you set skew correctly?
I have to use a Quattro / multiswitch as I need at least six feeds (even the 2 spare are in use at the moment!)

With the Invacom Quattro and my Jesmay multiswitch (which has variable attenuators for each input) I find that reception for 2D is almost identical to the Invacom Quad. Only for the difficult north beam transponders is there any noticeable difference.

I second your question about skew - that's vital. Even a couple of degrees either way can make a big difference.
 

billnot

Growing Old Disgracefully
Messages
242
Likes
0
My Satellite Setup
Famaval 3,1, IP9000HD plus other FTA and Linux boxes - Astra 1&2, Hotbird, Hispasat
My Location
Benitachell, Alicante, Spain
#14
Analoguesat said:
You might not like my comments, but Im pointing out a distinct possibility for 2011 /13 when the older Astra 2's start being phased out.
You could well be right, but my prediction (only a prediction) is that by then all we naughty folk overseas will be using Internet solutions to watch Eastenders and Corrie. The only thing stopping us now is that the speed of the ADSL connection isn't really up to it. In four years time, we could well be up to 20Mb both ways, and "slung" content will be of broadcast quality.

We already have businesses rebroadcasting UK TV via local microwave systems for a nice fat fee. It won't take much for them to get UK feeds by Internet and then pass them on the same way - again for a nice fat fee!
 

ralphmagno

Specialist Contributor
Messages
995
Likes
15
My Location
naples italy
#15
hi,
we are using an mulit switch,
this runs panasonic model 30 and 31 both
and the skew is adjusted ok.
we used a field strength meter to align the dish.
we also install systems in our area so this is probally the 1500 th system we installed.
most brits use a 1.20 dish so they receive all the sky movies and sports
they are geting about 85% of the channels.
we set up systems for turk sat, aribic system,orbit tv as well.
sooking at the lnb they measured the lobes and fine tuned the dish on the astra 2 d transponders.
they are there but they are low.
if you have any contacts in calabria or south of rome who picks up the bbc please let us know
thanks
ralph
 

Coviello

Regular Member
Messages
82
Likes
23
Location
Potenza (Italy)
My Satellite Setup
Prodelin 11ft (335 cm)
Windows 2000 XP
My Location
Southern Italy
#16
A couple of years ago, it was rumoured that a 240 cm VSAT antenna (with VSAT feed and lnb) was enough in a place south to Rome (about 100 km) to ensure 24/7 reception of Astra2D. I do not know whether it was true; anyway the difference between a normal and a VSAT lnb is that the latter one is equipped with a reject filter, i.e. a kind of pass band filter which attenuates the indesired transmit bands ( 13.75-14.75) when receiving. Playing with my 3.35 m Prodelin in Basilicata around 28.2 E (location of Astra 2A,2B,2D), I realized that the C-band lnb on 10803 GhZ produced a strength signal of an analog C-band transponder of 26E (location of Arabsat) on my old analog receiver. So, it seems worth trying with a pass band filter that only passes 10.700-12.700 GhZ (or possible, 10.700-11.700 GhZ).

Also, it would be useful to contact the guy who claimed to be able to receive BBC1 in Calabria (Cosenza).

In Corfu, 240cm is enough to receive Astra2D.

Coviello
 
Messages
47
Likes
0
My Satellite Setup
no dish
My Location
spain
#17
dave branson said:
The cut off line for 24/7 reception seems to be a line from Pisa,running north east to Bologna.
Yes,I remember when all this 2D thing started,one of the first posts was made by a member called Ugania (Mr. Lambertini) who said he managed to receive 2D 24/7 in Bologna
with a 1.20m dish.
I wonder if he's still browsing the forum and maybe confirm now his reports.

I agree with Analoguesat on the possibility of tighter footprints for next generation Astra 2 sats,but I think this might happen only for the bbc/itv channels.
I can't see Murdoch,who is struggling to get new subscribers net from churn rate every year,facing the prospect of about 700-800000
cancellations over a single month period(if not more at that time).
In fact just a phone call would be needed by all those European subscribers without signal to cancel their subs.
Mr. Murdoch knows his job very well,he's not like the managers of BSB,which went bankrupt in just 6 months!
Ever wondered why you can pay sky with any INTERNATIONAL credit card?:)
 

dxsat

Specialist Contributor
Messages
745
Likes
70
My Satellite Setup
Snap's setup: (In Spain) Humax HDR, Prodelin 1.8m dish + Invacom QDF-031 + CM feed, (In UK) CallFlow VDSL + EE 4G, Sky Q, YouView HD, Mac OSX, iOS
My Location
UK: Tonbridge, Kent. Spain: Madrid.
#18
Numbers:
It's been estimated that around 1 million of Sky's subscribers are out of the UK. There are 750,000 Britons in Spain alone. A very large proportion of these will have Sky subscriptions, (Take a look at Spanish domestic TV if you doubt this) they will very often have the full Sky package, as the channels on the south beams such as Sports and UK Gold are the easiest to receive. The channels with the maximum revenue potential are all on the south beam, which is the one used to activate subscriptions. Here in Madrid a Sky sub can be activated using a 60 cm dish.
If you take an average of the cheapest sub (now £17) and the most expensive, (£45) you get an average monthly figure of £31. Multiply this by one million, and then by twelve, and you will see why Sky tolerates mainland European customers and nothing will ever be done to cut them off.

Analoguesat is right, however, on the likely evolution of satellites. Beams will get more tightly focussed. Broadcasters will demand this so as to get the best rates from large vendors of programming. Someone may even find a way of masking out a beam to match a country's shape, enabling smaller dishes and frequency re- use in non- adjacent territories.
 

rolfw

Believe it when I see it Admin.
Staff member
Messages
37,671
Likes
1,279
My Satellite Setup
Technomate 5402 HD M2 Ci, DM7000s, Transparent 80cm Dish, Moteck SG2100 DiseqC motor, lots of legacy gear. Meters: Satlook Digital NIT, Promax HD Ranger+ spectrum analyser.
My Location
Berkshire
#19
Not sure whether your extrapolations are valid snap, as 1 million britons probably means more like 350,000 households, still a lot though and Sky would hurt if they lost them in one hit.
 

dxsat

Specialist Contributor
Messages
745
Likes
70
My Satellite Setup
Snap's setup: (In Spain) Humax HDR, Prodelin 1.8m dish + Invacom QDF-031 + CM feed, (In UK) CallFlow VDSL + EE 4G, Sky Q, YouView HD, Mac OSX, iOS
My Location
UK: Tonbridge, Kent. Spain: Madrid.
#20
You're right, assumptions in error, but it's still more than £10 million a month even with 350,000 expats.
It's not just Britons abroad subscribing, other nationalities do as well.
 
Top