Astra 2G: Scandinavia & Baltics Reports

M

Marti

New Member
Messages
9
My Satellite Setup
Pole mount 2.4M offset channel master + Inverto Black Ultra Quad at 28.5E. 70cm triax(?) with invacom quad pointed at 27.5W. 2 x Technomate tm5402hd + Panasonic Freesat TV. + spare Prime focus dish 180cm and invacom quad c120 lnb qdf-031.
My Location
Stockholm
I don't think the change of LNB will make that much a difference.
As has been determined on this and other boards, the IBUQ is the de facto standard for receiving 2x in Scandinavia.
If you get nothing at all, then you're probably not going to go from nothing to everything just swapping LNB.
The only point where the Invacom might be better is resolving cross-polarisation, but this only applies to a few of the 2G transponders AFAIK.

But it's worth trying - if you have one lying around.

Three (probably silly) questions, as you seem to be fairly adept at tuning the dish:

1) did you get a CM feedhorn with the dish?
2) do you have a proper meter (showing BER or MER)?
3) did you squeeze the last drops of skew out of the LNB when trying the IBUQ?
1- no. does it make much difference? I bought the IBUQ with integrated feedhorn.
2-no. using skype to see the Q% on the TV connected to the TM 5402HD box while adjusting for desired transponder.
3-yes, but .. seems to not have a massive effect even over 20 degrees or so around where it is supposed to be set but made a 1-2% difference.

I am wondering whether the LNB holder is not right for the IBUQ as it gives best quality when slammed in right up against the holder. I get the feeling that if I was able to push it in another 1-2cm I might even get a stronger signal, but of course it cannot go in any further as the LNB body is pressing against the holder. This might then yield results for 2G. Any thoughts about this? I tried removing the holder and arms but too tricky - maybe a camera tripod will make it easier to investigate.
 
st1

st1

SMC-dish aficionado
Messages
2,806
My Satellite Setup
Mostly SMC dishes pointing at 28.2E
My Location
Nordsjælland, Denmark
1- no. does it make much difference? I bought the IBUQ with integrated feedhorn.
The CM feedhorn is in larger than any of the built-in feedhorns.
It tends to work with an advantage with the larger CMs (e.g. yours), and give better result than the integrated feedhorns.
Indications from other members shows that it is not the case on the smaller ones (e.g CM100 and CM120), where an integrated feedhorn works as well or better.

So with a 2.4, you might get better resulsts on the 2G cross-polarised (same frequency, different polarisation) with a CM feedhorn + a C120 LNB (and that would then really mean an Invacom QDF-031).
But still - might - is the word.

2-no. using skype to see the Q% on the TV connected to the TM 5402HD box while adjusting for desired transponder.
3-yes, but .. seems to not have a massive effect even over 20 degrees or so around where it is supposed to be set but made a 1-2% difference.
From here north of Copenhagen using a CM180 and any LNB with a Installer-grade meter, I can measure the difference of a few degress (2-4) in terms of one or two dB in BER (similar to the "Q" og most receivers). +/- 20 degrees will render the signal unusable.

In any case, your skew should be just about 1.5 degrees, so almost vertical. In other words it should be leaning ever-so-slightly to the right when looking into the front of the dish.

I am wondering whether the LNB holder is not right for the IBUQ as it gives best quality when slammed in right up against the holder. I get the feeling that if I was able to push it in another 1-2cm I might even get a stronger signal, but of course it cannot go in any further as the LNB body is pressing against the holder. This might then yield results for 2G. Any thoughts about this? I tried removing the holder and arms but too tricky - maybe a camera tripod will make it easier to investigate.
This is typical of the CMs.
The CM feedhorns (for which the holder where designed) have fairly long necks.
Most LNBs with short necks can't get the focal point of the integrated feedhorn far enough away from the LNB holder.
The IBUQs have the extra long necks that allow the LNB to get roughly to the right distance from the holder.

You can see this in the pics below; compare the IBUQ with the CM feedhorn (witb an Invacom QDF-031 attached).
For info, I there's also a pic of the IBUQ with the plastic casing removed, to illustrate the the Inverto feedhorn is a bit smaller than the CM one.

IBUQonCM180_c.jpg
Invacom_QDFonCM180.jpg
IBUQ_CutUp.jpg

I am not sure you will get more from the IBUQ, even if you could mount it closer to the reflector.
However, I have not come across anyone who has tried this, and sadly @RimaNTSS, who has made many-a-customised-LNB-holder that would allow this, does not have a large CM dish, so I don't think he's ever tried.
My guess is that the neck length of the IBUQ is just right for the CMs.
 
4wd

4wd

Getting the picture
Messages
1,497
My Satellite Setup
5 W, 9-13-19-28 E
My Location
Bergen, Norway \ Alpes Maritimes, France
PBS America now on 2G uk 11426 V. Coming from 2F uk. So no more evening loss here. Regularly got some interesting programs.
 
A

Archive4

Guest
PBS America now on 2G uk 11426 V. Coming from 2F uk. So no more evening loss here. Regularly got some interesting programs.
It does now appear on 11427 V, but according to flysat 11427 V is 2E , not 2 G, unless the just moved the whole lot over.
 
4wd

4wd

Getting the picture
Messages
1,497
My Satellite Setup
5 W, 9-13-19-28 E
My Location
Bergen, Norway \ Alpes Maritimes, France
according to flysat 11427 V is 2E , not 2 G,
Can only judge (guess :O) by level similarities, at time of writing looks like 2G behavior. But of course could be 2e if 113-115 are weaker than other 2e uk's.

At the least, am 101% sure it's moved from 2f, as I can watch the program :O)
 
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timo_w2s

timo_w2s

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Staff member
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My Location
Maidenhead, UK & Helsinki, Finland
Yeah 11426V is 2E UK.
 
Captain Jack

Captain Jack

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Messages
10,652
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My Location
North Somerset
Hi all,

A report from a disappointed friend in Odense, DK. Since changing FEC to 8/9 (from?), he has lost all Sky Sports HD channels on his Squish. He can still receive HD channels with FEC of 5/6 and never loses signal, so he must be very close to getting a lock on the 8/9s.

As he lives in an apartment (that he owns), he cannot have a dish on the balcony (that he also owns) - hence the Squish/Selfsat dish. He is still interested in getting the HD channels and is now considering a 60cm clear dish. Looking at gain figures, the 60cm one has a theoretical gain of around 35dBi whereas a Selfsat one has only 33.7dBi. Coupled with a better LNB with a lower noise figure than Squish's 0.8dB(!), what realistic chance does he have of getting enough signal for the HDs to lock? I think it's pretty realistic as he can't be far off...
 
timo_w2s

timo_w2s

A Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,360
My Satellite Setup
See Signature
My Location
Maidenhead, UK & Helsinki, Finland
Hi all,

A report from a disappointed friend in Odense, DK. Since changing FEC to 8/9 (from?), he has lost all Sky Sports HD channels on his Squish. He can still receive HD channels with FEC of 5/6 and never loses signal, so he must be very close to getting a lock on the 8/9s.

As he lives in an apartment (that he owns), he cannot have a dish on the balcony (that he also owns) - hence the Squish/Selfsat dish. He is still interested in getting the HD channels and is now considering a 60cm clear dish. Looking at gain figures, the 60cm one has a theoretical gain of around 35dBi whereas a Selfsat one has only 33.7dBi. Coupled with a better LNB with a lower noise figure than Squish's 0.8dB(!), what realistic chance does he have of getting enough signal for the HDs to lock? I think it's pretty realistic as he can't be far off...
I have a Sqish (the rectangular kind) and I'd say it just about performs like a Sky zone 1 dish so a 60cm should give a much stronger signal, especially with a decent LNB as you say. However, I found the clear 80cm version of the dish didn't perform as well as a solid dish of similar size, especially on the horizontals.

Could your friend not put up something like a TD78 and hide it in a bin liner or something that is invisible to satellite signals? Perhaps even put it upside down to keep the profile lower?
 
Captain Jack

Captain Jack

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Staff member
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10,652
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My Location
North Somerset
That's a good idea! Will suggest that to him.
 
4wd

4wd

Getting the picture
Messages
1,497
My Satellite Setup
5 W, 9-13-19-28 E
My Location
Bergen, Norway \ Alpes Maritimes, France
Only here or something going on?
Not seen such low uk levels since the dark ages. Everything from e\f\g uk is gone this evening. Dish \ lnb should be ok. Zero readout on 2 f\g uk's, got a faint signal (but no picture) on a 2e uk.
 

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P

pal90

New Member
Messages
1
My Satellite Setup
Astra 1 and 2. Hotbird
My Location
Switzerland
Only here or something going on?
Not seen such low uk levels since the dark ages. Everything from e\f\g uk is gone this evening. Dish \ lnb should be ok. Zero readout on 2 f\g uk's, got a faint signal (but no picture) on a 2e uk.
You're not alone. Lost all the main terristerial channels yesterday (BBC, ITV, C4, C5 families). Some of the fringe ones are still there though (e.g. Pick). Radio seems normal as well.
 
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4wd

4wd

Getting the picture
Messages
1,497
My Satellite Setup
5 W, 9-13-19-28 E
My Location
Bergen, Norway \ Alpes Maritimes, France
still there though (e.g. Pick)
Pick on a EU footprint, no problem for those, got 100% 17db out of all EU's ref 2geu.jpg in post above, levels which suggests the setup is well adjusted, it's maybe UK's having gone down in power, or some special atmospherics.

Had a go with some tweaking and lnb testing to no avail, UK's were simply not there on the 125 dish. Came back later at night. Whatever, let's see tonight how it behaves.

And the conspiracy theory of course, freesat techs regularly getting reception reports from reading forums, and adjusting power trying to cut out unwanted viewers :rolleyes:
 
4wd

4wd

Getting the picture
Messages
1,497
My Satellite Setup
5 W, 9-13-19-28 E
My Location
Bergen, Norway \ Alpes Maritimes, France
^^^ Better this evening. At least 2e uk is back alive. There is hope.
2 f\g uk still too weak.
 
skomedal

skomedal

Specialist Contributor
Messages
2,108
My Satellite Setup
This and that
My Location
thule
Heat factor maybe:-doh

Summertime now 19.5+C central southern norway today.

Everything planned shelved until end of september:D

Regards


And the conspiracy theory of course, freesat techs regularly getting reception reports from reading forums, and adjusting power trying to cut out unwanted viewers :rolleyes:
 
4wd

4wd

Getting the picture
Messages
1,497
My Satellite Setup
5 W, 9-13-19-28 E
My Location
Bergen, Norway \ Alpes Maritimes, France
After june\july periods with very low levels, now many days with 2G uk increase of 5 to 6 db, 100%\17 db daytime ! which gives ample margin for the normal evening fade.
E & F up as well. cm 180.
 

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MCelliotG

MCelliotG

Specialist Contributor
Messages
704
My Satellite Setup
TBS 5925, Mut@nt HD51, EDISION OSMINI, MABO 130X144, DRAGONSAT DS3000 LED MOTOR, INVERTO BLACK ULTRA TWIN LNB
My Location
Thessaloniki, Greece
Now, if I told you I'm not jealous I would be flat lying!!! BTW, since Vu+ cannot show more than 17db it's safe to assume that the signal went even higher, the question is how much and how this might have affected out of fringe reception towards the north east as well!
 
st1

st1

SMC-dish aficionado
Messages
2,806
My Satellite Setup
Mostly SMC dishes pointing at 28.2E
My Location
Nordsjælland, Denmark
After june\july periods with very low levels, now many days with 2G uk increase of 5 to 6 db, 100%\17 db daytime ! which gives ample margin for the normal evening fade.
E & F up as well. cm 180.
Hmm. Hadn't notice a change here - but then again, it's been a while since I actually bothered to check signal strength on 28E.
Just went to check, just from the box S/Q values, the signal does appear to have increased a bit in strength.

However, I may need to re-tune the dish soon, as I lost IVT1 HD a year ago, and I still can't receive it on the FoxSat, even with this, erh, improvement in signal reception.
So either the dish is still too much oriented at 28.5E (which is what I optimised it for), or the dish has gone a little out of alignment.
That latter has not happened before, so I suspect the former.

Do you align you dish on 28.5 or 28.2, or somewhere in between (28.35)?
 
4wd

4wd

Getting the picture
Messages
1,497
My Satellite Setup
5 W, 9-13-19-28 E
My Location
Bergen, Norway \ Alpes Maritimes, France
^^^ Aligning for F & G, as E is always strong enough here. General +5 to 6 db increase continuing, but no idea if it will last.

For reference got the 125 also on 28e, am seeing much better levels there as well, so it's not dish, lnb or receiver, but 'something' with the satellites, all 3 of them.

For example, IVT1 HD evenings was impossible in june\july even with cm 180, now very good and got margin, see attach.

Now, if I told you I'm not jealous I would be flat lying!!!
May be ok located geo wise, but still had to work for it, went trough 60 > 90 > 125 > 180 cm, 20 lnb's, 4 receivers, much head scratching and adjustment experiments, so some good results must be somehow deserved! :O)

since Vu+ cannot show more than 17db
Yes, has been wondering about that, especially the strong 2E uk which is now mostly flat out 17db. And what about the EU beams... they must be 34db on the 180 :O) Zero signs of any tuner overload on any of the receivers I've got, agc's do their job.
 

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e-sky

e-sky

Member
Messages
5
My Satellite Setup
OA-1600 SMW / PF 180cm petal dish
MTI LNB AP8-T2NRC
PACE 2500
My Location
Toreboda, Sweden
I finally had to get a bigger dish since the fringe area signals appear to be getting weaker on 28 E.

This from a location 200km's south west of Stockholm (Västergötland Sweden). I had to upgrade from the SMW OA-1600 to a PF 180cm petal dish.

At first I though maybe a PF 240cm petal dish was needed since the SMW was good enough to get those signals right up until October 2016.



Anyhow to cut to the chase the 180 petal dish did the job and pulled in everything (I think) including the C4's and C5's. I suspect the C5's are slightly weaker since I lost them after a snow fall which covered half the dish. (I didn't get PBS, odd)



I've posted images of a couple of HD channels BBC two (2) HD and Channel 5 HD. As you can see the BER is lower on the C5 than on the C4.

The basic Pace sky box appears to have pixelation on Channel 5 which suggest the receiver in my Philips TV (Built in SAT receiver) handles the weaker signals without pixelation.

The basic digi box pulled down 140 Free view (un-locked) channels and 22 radio channels. Unfortunately it didn't lock onto any C5's also confirming the TV’s better receiver.



The dish was fitted with a basic cheap LNB 0.6 db and roughly skewed in what worked for reception. I still have plenty of tuning to do with a better LNB from my old dish and also to find out what the optimum skew is. I also have a 30 meter pine tree obstructing the view which causes pixelation when the wind blows and when frost grows on the tree. (C5`s are temporary unavailable now). Things can only get better since I’m old school and don’t have any fancy equipment besides trial and error.
 

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st1

st1

SMC-dish aficionado
Messages
2,806
My Satellite Setup
Mostly SMC dishes pointing at 28.2E
My Location
Nordsjælland, Denmark
The dish was fitted with a basic cheap LNB 0.6 db and roughly skewed in what worked for reception. I still have plenty of tuning to do with a better LNB from my old dish and also to find out what the optimum skew is.
Excellent results! Nice to see some good trial-and-error approach.
Especially since those petalised dishes (I've had one) are really difficult to get proper performance from on Ku-band.
(and they rust like the devil - do apply lots of grease or similar, especially to the stand!)

But you will get almost instant improvement if you try an LNB with a feed-horn that matches the f/D of the prime-focus dish.
I assume you are using the LNB in your profile, and that LNB is designed for offset-dishes with an f/D of about 0.6.
The Jonsa/FortecStar/xxxx dish you have had an f/D of about 0.36 AFAIR.
This means that the LNB you are using are only really seeing under 40-50% of the dish (!)

Using either a P/F feed-horn + C120-based LNB (Inverto Black Pro for example) or an integrated one (Golden Interstar 209P) will give you a couple of dB more.

This may be just what you are looking for...

GI-209b.jpg
(from Golden Interstar GI-209P : Pasmo Ku)

As a comparison, I receive everything from 28.2-5x on a 120cm plastic dish near hässleholm.
You should be getting everything too with a 180, even a petalised one (if assembled well).
 
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