BBC Starts FTA from July10th

skyoutUK

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#1
Digital Spy reports that BBC reached agreement with bskyb, for next 5 years regional variations will be available with sky card on 101 & 102 with solus card 101 will be BBC One London and 102 BBC Two England while other regions will be on EPG Unencrypted transmission starts according to DS on Thursday July 10th.

So millions of Europeans will have free BBC while we outside Astra 2D footprint will be left out. I find it amazing that BBC restricts access as much as they can while other national broadcasters strive to cover as wide area as possible best example is ARD and ZDF they are simulcast on Astra and Hot Bird to cover not only whole of Europe but north Africa and middle east as well and they transmit FTA full national service "as is" in Germany. Many smaller countries that encrypt their national channels make them legally available from anywhere in Europe yet we are convinced that national BBC is not meant for us outside UK.

BBC Prime and World are poor substitutes for "regular" BBC. I just wait for first lawsuit filed by Americans for breach of copyright contract.
 

iceman

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#2
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2003/06_june/13/dsat_statement.shtml

BSkyB and the BBC today (Friday 13 June 2003) announced a five year agreement which includes the continued allocation to BBC ONE and BBC TWO of channel numbers 101 and 102 on BSkyB's Electronic Programme Guide (EPG).

Therefore the BBC will withdraw its complaint, made in April 2003, to the Independent Television Commission.

From 10 July, the BBC will broadcast all eight television channels in the clear.

By Autumn 2003, all 22 national and regional variations of BBC ONE and BBC TWO will be available and listed on the EPG.

As part of the agreement, the BBC is buying a regionalisation service from BSkyB to ensure that viewers within the UK with Sky viewing cards will continue to automatically receive the right national and regional versions of BBC ONE and BBC TWO at 101 and 102 respectively.

The agreement will end the payment by the BBC to BSkyB for the provision of "Solus" viewing cards to digital satellite viewers who do not have a subscription to a pay-TV service.

In future, viewers will continue to be able to view all unencrypted channels and will receive versions of BBC ONE London and BBC TWO England in the 101 and 102 positions.

They will also be able to manually select the rest of the BBC's national and regional variations listed on the EPG.
 

w hole

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#3
Hello skyoutUK

Well -

It's a bit compliated but :

The big USA Corps. want to protect the investement they have made in the product they deliver, and they are very restrictive in how they go about it.

They control - sometimes behind the scenes - the way that programmes are released.

If you look at the output from the the total availalable spectrum which is broadcast in 'english' you will find that it is restricted to what and how they have agreed it should be.

There are few exceptions, even the proposed changes in BBC ouput only just circumvent the American Boycot

Even So it will be a wonderful day for European Satellite Reception when and if they [the BBC] go ahead despite the pressures from across the pond.

The whole subject of worldwide/regional/country copyright is so frought with artificial barriers

So I think it it only right to applaud Greg Dyke for his stand in this, which could in the long run prove to be a significant point in the battle between the rest of the world and the 'Studios' and 'Mr R. M.'

This is avery important point in the history of Satellite Communications, and it is to be hoped that Greg D. and the BBC will prevail.

If they do not - then ................

Regards to all - and if you have been listening thank you.


W. Hole
 
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#4
One small possible advantage of this move will allow use of normal FTA satellite receivers which have allegedly far superior tuners - which may make the BBC easier to receive ?

With FTA receivers costing from £100 this may prove cheaper than huge dishes...

I guess we will find out shortly after July 10th....

Thanks

Gavin
 

iceman

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#5
Originally posted by GavinP
One small possible advantage of this move will allow use of normal FTA satellite receivers which have allegedly far superior tuners
Not many FTA receivers have tuners more sensitive than skybox tuners.(not including some exceptional models)

iceman
 

frassle

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#6
Does anyone know how this will affect ITV CH4 CH5. Do they automatically go free to view on this date?
 

iceman

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#7
Originally posted by frassle
Does anyone know how this will affect ITV CH4 CH5. Do they automatically go free to view on this date?
As far as i know ITV CH4 CH5 will remain encrypted in videoguard.

iceman
 
D

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#8
ARD and ZDF and the other German channels get away with broadcasting their programs - including stuff they buy in from the UK and US - all over Europe because they are indeed encoded. They are encoded using a system which makes the programs receivable to all and sundry, but only useable and enjoyable to those viewers who can and want to decode this fiendishly tricky encoding method.

The encoding method they use is this: everything gets dubbed into German. Without mercy.

This makes the programs unusable to non-germanophones. And undesirable to most non-German German speakers.

Broadcasters who merely subtitle their programs - like the Dutch and Scandinavian ones - can not let everyone all over Europe see them. Side effect: Dutch and Scandinavian people are better English speakers than most Germans.

Evidently, Hollywood accepts encoding into German as a valid method of ensuring that only the intended target audience gets to enjoy the programs.
 

skyoutUK

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#9
Originally posted by Qwerty
Broadcasters who merely subtitle their programs - like the Dutch and Scandinavian ones - can not let everyone all over Europe see them.
I agree but my point is ones that broadcast original soundtrack like Swiss, Slovenian and Croatian national stations who are encrypted make their packages available legally and easily across Europe to their citizens, yet English channels go out their way to limit viewing to UK only even in Gibraltar you are technically not allowed to watch sky.
In near future with spot beam satellites like ill fated Astra 1K and reuse of same frequencies in different parts of Europe it will be impossible to receive desired channels outside footprint with any size dish, I just hope by then you could watch channels streamed on broadband internet.
 

frassle

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#10
Originally posted by iceman
As far as i know ITV CH4 CH5 will remain encrypted in videoguard.

iceman
Yes but at the moment it is the BBC who issue these cards and pick up the bill. So does this change or am I missing something here?
 

methos_de

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#11
Originally posted by skyoutUK
I agree but my point is ones that broadcast original soundtrack like Swiss, Slovenian and Croatian national stations who are encrypted make their packages available legally and easily across Europe to their citizens,
easily yes, legally....... I don't think so.

Methos.
 

cjgall

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#12
Originally posted by iceman
Not many FTA receivers have tuners more sensitive than skybox tuners.(not including some exceptional models)

iceman
Many none sky tuners have superb tuners and offer many more features. For instance I have a Topfield 4000PVR which has a built in 40GB harddisk, double tuner, two PCMCIA CAS slots, optical output, ten favorite lists etc, etc. I don't have to pay extra for time shifting and recording like you do with Sky+. You can record one program and watch another as long as the polarity and band are the same.
Although strickly speaking the Topfield is not a FTA tuner, it doesn't come with any form of CAM so for all intents and purposes it is a FTA tuner out of the box.
I usually get a signal quality of 100% on the Topfield. I never get more than about 75% signal quality on my Grundig sky digibox.

I live in the Netherlands so have a CanlDigitaal card, which btw are not legally available elsewhere. Dutch TV channels transmit virtually all programs in there original language. This gives a choice of several films and series in English each evening.

German TV, is virtually all FTA on Astra 1, this includes ARD & ZDF although English programs are always dubbed in German. Also the Germans have got there act together when it comes to transmitting the EPG as they do not use a propriety system like Sky and CanalDigitaal do which makes the EPG useable on FTA/UCAS tuners. I only get now and next when viewing Dutch TV channels on the Topfield. Many German channels transmit there EPG for a whole week which makes recording very easy.

Now that the BBC have sorted out there EPG differences with Sky, in particular the regional problem, I believe that the way is open for ITV to go FTA when there contract with Sky runs out (next year?). For example ITV1 would be able to tansmit regional programs on 103 in the EPG depending on your address and make the other regions available elswhere in the EPG.
 
D

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#13
Even members of the British Forces stationed here in Berlin could not legally subscribe to Sky; they had to make do with BFBS TV which was broadcast terrestrially on channel 41 (in PAL-I and vertically polarised, just to make it difficult for non-Forces viewers who had to get multi-standard TV's and separate aerials) and BFBS radio and BBC World Service on FM.

Nowadays, of course, there are no British Forces and no BFBS TV or radio here. But we still have the jolly old World Service.
 

skyoutUK

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#14
Originally posted by methos_de
easily yes, legally....... I don't think so
YES legally I am talking about state/national broadcasters like Swiss SF1, SF2, TSR1, TSR2, TSI1, TSI2 for example not commercial ones like TPS or Canal+ Packages.
 

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#15
The Swiss, Serbs and Croats, etc. can sell subscriptions to their nationals living abroad because these countries aren't in the European Union. In the EU, laws prevent discrimination on the grounds of nationality for the supply of most goods and services. The BBC can't offer subscriptions just to British citizens living outside of the UK; it would have to offer a subscription to anyone in Europe who wanted to pay regardless of nationality.
 

cjgall

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#16
I don't see why European citizens cannot purchase subcriptions from other countries, after all, this would increase the broadcasters and Hollywoods revenues (I assume that film companies etc receive royalties based on the number of subscribers?).

As it now stands, I pay just 15 Euro's per year as I don't subscribe to any packages. For that I get all the Dutch channels (FTV), BBC World, CNBC, CNN (FTA), excluding Canal+, Dutch version of Discovery etc plus I receive the UK FTV & FTA channels and of course loads of FTA German channels etc. I would be quite happy to pay for a decent subscription.

CanalDigitaal here in the Netherlands is crap. For instance the only channel of interest to me in there basic package (see: http://www.canaldigitaal.nl/pakketten.asp?Id=1 ) is Dicovery channel. Several of the other channels are available in one form or another free elsewhere. There is no way I am prepared to pay 6.25 euro's for one channel.

The CanalDigitaal entertainment package is even worse (see: http://www.canaldigitaal.nl/pakketten.asp?Id=4 ). For and extra 17.50 euro's (on top of the cost of the basic package!) you get 1 mature content channel, cartoon network, TCM (FTA Astra2) and Hallmark. I would much prefer a subscription to one of the Sky packages. For instance the Sky entertainment family package for 18 quid, much better value.

What we need is some new European legislation allowing cross border viewing and subscriptions. If need be, we could pay for 'UK licence fees' through package pricing that is slightly more expensive than the packages for UK citizens.

Companies such as Sky and CanalDigitaal should start transmitting there EPG's in the DVB standard instead of using there own media- and videoguard systems. Or at least broadcast both systems simultaniously. As far as i can tell, not many people buy CanalDigitaal certified Mediaguard digiboxes here in the Netherlands, but buy for (U)CAS boxes instead so only have now and next on the EPG.

UK citizens are probably the luckiest in Europe when it comes to choice on digital satellite. And when compared to the megre, expensive CanalDigitaal offering, many of the Sky packages are good value.
 

2old4this

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#17
For and extra 17.50 euro's (on top of the cost of the basic package!) you get 1 mature content channel, cartoon network, TCM (FTA Astra2) and Hallmark
LOL. There are those living in Britland would willingly pay that just for the mature content... :D :D
 

cjgall

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#18
Originally posted by 2old4this
LOL. There are those living in Britland would willingly pay that just for the mature content... :D :D
I realise that. But from my point of view, some of the FTV Dutch commercial channels air more or less the same the same mature content stuff, so whats the point in paying extra, not to mention if you've seen one, you've seen them all. So, if folks living in Britland could legally obtain a Dutch FTV card, say for a price that covers the Dutch TV licence fee...

This would in fact mean that there would be no charge as the Dutch abolished the licence fee (kijk en luister geld) quite some time ago.

As a matter of fact, Dutch viewing cards are pretty easy to get hold of. You just walk into your local sat shop and buy one over the counter for 65-70 euro's.

But seriously, the EU should address this issue.
 

2old4this

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#19
Kijk en luister geld hasn't been abolished - it's now paid as part of income tax. The Dutch are very good at this kind of fiscal sleight-of-hand. They did it with their special car-tax too (BVB, or bezondere verbuiksbelasting). When the European commission challenged the Dutch in 1992 that such a tax (25%+) was impeding fair trade, the Dutch dutifully "abolished" that too. It was "abolished" into the BPM (Belasting van personenauto’s en motorrijwielen), which is just as expensive and just as unavoidable...

Sure, Dutch satellite cards are easy enough (if expensive) to procure as a Dutch resident. Not so easy if you don't have a Dutch address.


Back to your point about Hollywood:

the problem is that we collectively allow Hollywood to get away with selling its wares to each country seperately. The solution is simple: Europeans should stop watching so much Hollywood content in the first place.

We are a union of some 380 million citizens (and growing). That's a hunded million more than the US. Aren't we able to generate our own content? Perhaps we need a truly pan-European film industry to be developed, to be funded jointly by member states.

In fact, it is the Brits especially that seem to have this love affair with all things American. Pick up a television or satellite publication and you'd be forgiven for thinking that Britain was part of the US instead of part of Europe. What Satellite has its regular splash on the American satellite industry. Why? No-one in Britain can receive American satellite! On the other hand, everyone CAN receive the transmissions for mainland Euope yet there's hardly anything ever appears in print about that.

Look at the content of the popular channels. I'd estimate that at least half of the content of Sky One & Sky Mix is US in origin. And look at the news. What does Sky News choose periodically to include on its active screen, and what does it switch to late at night? Fox News from US! OK, I know the two networks are sister organisations, but nevertheless Sky clearly believes that the UK viewing public is at least somewhat interested in pure US news (much of it local). You'd be hard pushed to find anything like that amount of coverage of European issues. How many Brits watch Euronews?

So why are so many Europeans apparently more interested in what's going on half way around the world than on their own doorstep (in the union they are part of)? Perhaps if there was any genuine mainstream interest for receiving transmissions from neighbouring countries, the broadcasters and legislators might be less willing to accept the contractual stipulations laid down by an increasingly greedy Hollywood.

Oh, and I know that a big part of the problem is language. But while the US is certainly the largest English-speaking nation and able to turn out lots of English-language material, there are also some 100 million people outside the US whose first language is English. I would have thought that a pool of one hundred million people should be able to make and consume sufficient alternative material to rival Hollywood.

In those parts of the world (such as much of Europe) where English is not a first-language, we should perhaps be more willing to watch and enjoy films which are not in our own language. If the Netherlands and Scandanavia are perfectly accepting of subtitles, why not, say, the Brits? A well-funded film company in, say, Germany. can make blockbusters every bit as good as the Hollywood big hits. So why not screen those films in subtitles across the whole of Europe?

And consider what we do turn out. Home-grown European films tend to be of the genres that do not typically attract the massive audiences. For some reason we like to produce artsy films, or films about society, about a supposedly complex interplay of characters, or some rural or urban strife. Why can't we produce more home-grown science fiction, fantasy, horror or disaster with mass appeal? It wouldn't necessarily need a huge special-effects budget, just a little creativity and a willingness to snap out of the artistic snobbery that pervades our local film industries.

In any event, we need to think carefully about the reasons for - and how to break - our addiction to US content if we are ever to develop truly pan-European alternatives.

2old
 
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#20
It's not just an almost (but not quite) common language that makes US films, soaps and sitcoms popular in the UK. It's cheaper, partly because of the sheer volume of the stuff produced, partly because it doesn't have to be subtitled, dubbed of lectored. But the main reason is that the American sense of humour is much closer to ours, and much more readily appreciated, than say the German sense of humour (yes, there is one, it's just kept well hidden and not allowed out on TV except on special occasion). In short, we simply prefer it.
 
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