Advice Needed Controlling a USALS motor with a USB tuner.

[elsmandino]

Hi,

I have come across this little device and was wondering what you guys thought.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mystique-SaTiX-S2-DiSEqC-USALS-Remote/dp/B007K59V62

Could this thing really move a satellite motor or would you need another power source?

 

[Terryl]

In my opinion it could not, if it's a USB unit then the DC voltage is not high enough, you need over 14 volts DC at around 250 to 300 mA to move a standard H to H motor on a kU band dish and 24 to 36 volts DC at several amps to run a C band motor.

So there has to be something in between to run the motor.

 

[davemurgtroyd]

In my opinion it could not, if it's a USB unit then the DC voltage is not high enough, you need over 14 volts DC at around 250 to 300 mA to move a standard H to H motor on a kU band dish and 24 to 36 volts DC at several amps to run a C band motor.

So there has to be something in between to run the motor.

It does not appear to be USB powered as it also has a 12V power input socket. The spec says it supports USALs so should be capable of driving a DiSEqC motor with a suitable power supply to it.

 

[jeallen01]

Here's another USB Tuner - the Sundtek SkyTV Ultimate -that claims to be able to drive a USALS motor. It too has a 12V input socket for the external PSU that they supply with it. There's more info on the support forum here. OTOH, I don't think it supports Crazyscan - or, at least, it's not on CrazyKat's compatibility list.

PS: The UK distributor is World of Satellite (WoS) - I bought one from there earlier in the year and returned it only because I realised that it was a bit overkill for what I then needed and I didn't have any time to play around with it.

 

[Lazarus]

It's probably academic anyway, as "Currently Unavailable" in Amazon speak invariably means defunct.

 

[jeallen01]

Edited so I get notifications

 

[elsmandino]

Thank you all - really helpful information.

As Lazarus says, I should probably forget the particular model that I linked above.

However, there are a few others (like TBS) that offer a similar thing and the Sundtek looks very interesting too - the fact that they do have additional power inputs does seem to suggest that it really could work with a regular H to H USALS motor.

If the Sundtek definitely supports USALS too, that would be my choice as Linux support seems much better (TBS firmware is a bit of a problem with Linux).

By way of background as to what I am currently up to:

I recently bought a Digibit R1 SAT>IP box that I am going to be linking up to a Zone 1 minidish, pointing at 28.2e.

All recordings are sent, via ethernet, to a server, running TVHeadend, that contains all my harddrives .

I have two main problems with this setup:

1. It is very difficult to get a coax socket into the room that contains the server (which is why I am using the SAT>IP server) and

2. The server is not particularly efficient and wastes a not insignificant amount of electricity, doing nothing.

Lots of people on the TVHeadend website are using Raspberry Pi - type boards, with a small hard drive, to schedule and record their satellite TV and that is what I am up to.

HOWEVER - I have read, on here, about the merits of a USALS motor and I now want a piece of that too.

I can mount the motor near to where my existing dish is and it should get quite a clear signal on the side of the house. Furthermore, the smaller computer can be then placed in the same room where the satellite coax will come in through the wall.

If everything goes to plan, I should be able to just plug the USB device into the mini-computer.

 

[sonnetpete]

The Mystique one looks exactly like my DVBSky tuner. It definitely is up to switching on complex multi sats but I've yet to try it with a motor. I'm not too confident it would work well...

 

[huve]

Hi,

I have come across this little device and was wondering what you guys thought.

Mystique SaTiX-S2 Sky V2 USB, HDTV, DiSEqC, USALS: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

Could this thing really move a satellite motor or would you need another power source?

Yes, it can use diseqc-motor, I have one. It is a copy of dvbsky, I use dvbsky drivers with it, so I can use crazyscan (constellation diagrams not supported and rf-scan slow). I don't remember when was the last time I've used it, maybe two years ago.

 

[Terryl]

OK, I didn't see the external supply, but at 12 volts the motor will turn slower then normal, the standard Diseqc H to H motor uses the LNB power/ transponder switching voltage (13V/18V) supplied by the satellite receiver to run on, and most need around 180 to 200 mA of DC current when running, the startup current is even higher. (up to 350 mA)

And you also have to take into account the DC voltage drop on the coax being used, cheap coax or a long run of coax will give you a greater then normal voltage drop, this can cause the DC current draw to go above normal.

I've had to solve problems with motor installs using long runs of coax (over 20 meters)by replacing the coax with a run of good high quality stuff with a pure copper center conductor, and a copper shield, this eliminated the problems of blowing out the receivers DC power supply circuit to the LNB.

So with only 12 volts DC to work with the H to H motor will run much slower then one directly connected to a satellite receiver.

Also this device will NOT run a "C" band linear motor.

 

[jeallen01]

@Terryl
Now you remind me, I think I did try to use the Sundtek for actually driving the Dark Motor with the dish on it, and I think I found, as you say, that it moved much slower than when driven by one of the receivers - probably another reason I sent it back.

 

[Trust]

OK, I didn't see the external supply, but at 12 volts the motor will turn slower then normal, the standard Diseqc H to H motor uses the LNB power/ transponder switching voltag (13V/18V) supplied by the satellite receiver to run on, and most need around 180 to 200 mA of DC current when running, the startup current is even higher. (up to 350 mA)

And you also have to take into account the DC voltage drop on the coax being used, cheap coax or a long run of coax will give you a greater then normal voltage drop, this can cause the DC current draw to go above normal.

I've had to solve problems with motor installs using long runs of coax (over 20 meters)by replacing the coax with a run of good high quality stuff with a pure copper center conductor, and a copper shield, this eliminated the problems of blowing out the receivers DC power supply circuit to the LNB.

So with only 12 volts DC to work with the H to H motor will run much slower then one directly connected to a satellite receiver.

Also this device will NOT run a "C" band linear motor.

for sure that device can make 18 V , if not it was not capable to switch the lnb to the high band .

 

[elsmandino]

Thanks for all that - whilst it seems that a motorised dish can be used with a USB device, a good old regular PCI-e card probably will work best.

It is going to be a pain in the backside getting satellite feeds into the room with my server but once it is done, hopefully it should just work.

Rather than muddy this thread with a change in tact, I am going to start a new thread in the PC tuner card section.

Thank you all for your input - as always, I have learnt a lot from you!

 

[Tururu]

OK, I didn't see the external supply, but at 12 volts the motor will turn slower then normal, the standard Diseqc H to H motor uses the LNB power/ transponder switching voltage (13V/18V) supplied by the satellite receiver to run on, and most need around 180 to 200 mA of DC current when running, the startup current is even higher. (up to 350 mA).....

Currently the receivers no longer have power regulators, have converters, give them 12v and give what you want.
With 12Vcc, they have no trouble giving 14V/18 Volts and 500mAmp.
In general the motors (SG2100 / Dimo120 +) have peaks of 450mAmp., Then it has a stable consumption of 350mAmp.
With coax low loss, the live is 1'13mm, even 1'33mm (a game bought years ago), without problems 60metros/83metros, some equipment allow to increase 1 Volt to compensate for long rolls of coax.

A regulator (LM317) needs 21-22Volts to work at 18V.
Dissipating in heat the volts it does not give, it literally burns the heatsink to 14Volts when moving the motor.

A converter, transforms by switching the input volts to whatever you want with a performance of 80-90%, with 500mAmp is cold, only soldered the body to the plate/PCB, when they remove 3Amp (3000mAmp.) needs heatsink.
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Actualmente los receptores ya no tienen reguladores de alimentacion, tienen convertidores, les das 12v y dan lo que quieras.
Con 12Vcc, no tienen problemas para dar 14V/18 Voltios y 500mAmp.
En general los motores (SG2100/Dimo120+) tienen picos de 450mAmp., luego tiene un consumo estable de 350mAmp.
Con cable coaxial de bajas perdidas, el vivo es de 1'13mm, incluso 1'33mm (una partida que compre hace años), sin problemas 60metros/83metros, algunos equipos permiten subir 1 Voltio para compensar tiradas largas de cable coaxial.

Un regulador (LM317) necesita 21-22Voltios para trabajar a 18V.
Disipando en calor los voltios que no da, literalmente quema el disipador a 14Voltios al mover el motor.

Un convertidor, transforma por conmutacion los voltios de entrada a lo que quieras con un rendimiento del 80-90%, con 500mAmp esta frio, solo soldado el cuerpo a la placa/PCB, cuando sacan 3Amp (3000mAmp.) necesita disipador.