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Could someone please help me?

H

harmio

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#1
Hi... after much researching and trial and error with a 60cm dish ( which many of you will remember) I finally saved the money to buy a universal lnb and 1m dish ( which came today) I mounted it at the back and got eutelsat w2 at 16 degrees east almost instantly... the georgian mux reads 16db ( i understand this isnt exact!) but its like filling the gauge for signal quality so im well aligned to the satellite.. however, as before, when I enter the details for "Armenia TV" (12.620 V, 2315, 3/4) I get c/n ratios that jump about all over the place from 15 to 0 to 5 to 7 to 8 etc etc. This results in an on and off puicture. From previous advice I adjusted the frequencies slightly and the symbol rate but this made no difference...... could someone with a motorised system please check and see what you get? I was thinking maybe its the fact its a weird symbol rate.. but ive used my "Provision " reciever for NITV s odd symbol rates before.. any other ideas? right now im pretty miffed as i saved from allowance £70 for this set up.......:( is it worth contacting a dealer or something? Ive contacted armenia tv themselves who do seem pretty competent and say that they have had feedback from europe and the signal is working as otherwise they said they would have changed it. Ive really seen nothing like this before.. sometimes it jumps to 15 and the reciver has these weird lines on it.. like its crashing it. Ive checked for dect phones, mobiles, everything. Its realyl weird and annoying because i was really looking forward to this....
Any ideas? please?
 

Channel Hopper

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#2
Which Provision receiver ?

Reports that the FTA digital / analogue ones had trouble with switching bands due to stability of the power supply.

There is little chance that at 12620V and with a 1m cm dish you will have problems with some co-channel (adjacent frequency ) interference from the other satellites next door butits worth checking your spot on the satellite)

If you are using a Universal LNB then the IF frequency in the cable for Armenia is at 2020 MHz which can be upset by many factors - cable length, quality of cable, connectors, water ingress, stability of LNB on the upper band etc.

Try another length of cable first

Are you near a mobile phone mast ?
 
H

harmio

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#3
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 25-Jan-02 AT 10:21 PM (GMT)]hi, thanks for your help. I'll try to respond to all your points:

I have a Provision PSR 2000 FTA Digital-Only receiver. Ive never really had problems with it and it locks on to even the most difficult scpc channels with odd symbol rates. I was quite surprised its pretty good for a cheap reciever. Although it was £230 but that was about a year ago.

As far as cable goes, I would say that you may be right, as there is a very long length of cable of about 50m to the back. But its high quality expensive sat. cable we bought from the dealer, and weve never had trouble with the other 1m dish we had before, and another reason why its unlikely to be the cable is because I had the same problem when trying the channel with the 60cm dish, which only has a length of about 4m cable! and i still had problems of odd fluctuations in signal etc etc.

I have tweaked the dish ( outside in the pouring rain) and I am getting the weakest of the scpc channels, like TMF (11.043 H 4338 3/4) with about 7db ( which again i understand isnt exact!), but perfectly watchable. Its very strange. I cant really describe what happens when I type in the Armenia Tv frequency, its like, the signal strength percentage jumps from 40 something to 60 something ( usually the same two numbers) and at each jump of the strength meter, the quality meter always jumps, from 8 to 6, to 0, then to 9 , basically its as if the signal is being recieved but theres something in the way. As far as mobile phone masts, the nearest one here is an orange one in a village about 4 miles away on the mountain, how would i diagnose if its that? I didnt know they could affect it, though it is microwaves I guess. I suppose what I really need is another reciever to try, but I dont know anyone, bar dealers who'll want £50 just to breathe in my house........ Its very strange... and annoying! my money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
O yes and also, as for that co channel interference thing, im not realyl to knowledgable on these things, so I didnt understand eaxactly what you meant, how can I find if theres adjacent channels interefering? , and surely these would affect everyone who tunes in , ( i emailed sathelp.co.uk and they recieve it fine )....
 

rolfw

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#4
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 25-Jan-02 AT 10:43 PM (GMT)]Another possible way of checking for interference, see if any of the local dealers have an old Sky analogue frequency converter. It was to enable wider band reception and will switch between 250Mhz up or down conversion. If you switch it to up convert and then change your search frequency by the requisite 250Mhz, it may clear any interference caused by other sources in the 2Ghz band.

Rolf
 
H

harmio

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#5
so i get that gadget.. and put it to up.. then wouldnt my frequency to search for end up as 12.870 ghz? isnt that above the threshold for uni lnbs? or have i got this wrong? I dont even know if we have any local dealers ( hehe this is the south wales valleys--drugs yes satellites dunno ) . I remember seeing them about years ago and they were quite cheap...... anyone else any other ideas on this odd problem? channel hopper? you are very knowledgeable and rolfw thanks so much for your help.
 

rolfw

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#6
The idea of the unit is to effectively change the local oscillator of the LNB, so to add 250Mhz to the high band 10.600Ghz of a universal LNB will give you a 10.850Ghz local oscillator, subtract that from the 12.620Ghz and you have an IF below the troublesome 2Ghz mark.

I'm not sure whether this will help your problems, but it's simply a way of checkig to see if you have an external influence adversely affecting reception. These converters can be found at tips, car boot sales and in the free ads along with old analogue systems for pennies.

Rolf
 
H

harmio

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#7
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 25-Jan-02 AT 11:54 PM (GMT)]thanks. I have a freeads and theres nothing in there. If anyone knows of any dealers who sell these then please let me know :) apart from that any other reasons for this ? has anyone else tried this frequency.. sorry for my apparent obsession but I have spent £70 and i feel gutted! also dont some of the other frequencies im recieving have IF's over 2ghz. i cant think of any offhand but im sure a few of the scpc ones do...how come these arent affected?
 

rolfw

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#8
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 26-Jan-02 AT 11:53 AM (GMT)]Don't know about that, but I'm not sure what you're receiving, it may be that it is interference at a very specific frequency, ie 2.020Ghz.

With regard to the converters, most sat installers will have a couple that they will probably be happy to give away, or at least only wan't a quid or so for.

As I said, this test will only serve to help isolate the problem.

Rolf
 

ckrys1

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#9
Don`t know if this is of any help, but I lost TV Armenia from 16E 2 weeks ago, and had to reinstall it into my Humax 5300, since when it`s been fine. I assumed they`d changed the PIDs or network ID or something. Certainly I was getting no signal at all, then after I had restored on the same frequency, there was 30% signal quality and no problems.

Ckrys1
 
H

harmio

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#10
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 26-Jan-02 AT 03:23 PM (GMT)]thanks. Someone else also told me that they lost it and had to reinstall. Ive tried reninstalling it in every way possible. I just dont understand this!!!!!! If everyone else seems to get it and I dont it must be something local. Maybe my reciever? in which case I wont know. ...but if anyone has any other ideas. then pleasehelp. Right now im about to go out in the pouring rain and tweak. yay.

*** its no3 3.15 and ive spent all day ringing around trying to find one. No one has one, not even the dealer i rang in London. Does anyone have one they can sell to me? and rolf,, if it is ingtereference at this frequemcy, then will this thing get rid of it? or just show me that there is interference? im a bit confused... and also a weird thing is that it seems to be worse reception on the 1m dish at the back than it was on the 60cm i tried. Before thered be a picture then itd go, now theres not even enough to make that, and when i search the transponder it comes up as "no channels" ...
 

rolfw

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#11
I'll have a dig around and see if i can find one, think I threw them away as they were of no real use anymore. If it does work then you can leave it in line and use it purely for that frequency, there's a switch on the unit.

I would stress though that it may not be interference related, so adding the unit may make no difference whatsoever.

Rolf
 

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#12
Rool 1 - Dont go out in a gail to check a dish, for any reason.

Wind, slippery tiles, low flying animals etc etc

Rool 2 - In taking the connections apart in this weather you let some moisture into the connector and therefore either into the LNB or worse still into the cable, once its there it only goes downwards into the receiver

Anyhow - as mentioned before the PSR series - both the FTA Analogue /Digital , and I believe the FTA digital only used to have switching problems. This may be improved by another LNB and this should be your first port of call

Rolf - the Switch you mention used to alter the frequency by 500 MHz downwards (and later there was an option of both 500 down and 500 up to allow older receivers to get stuff with newer LNBs - I think)

Since it alters only the IF frequency this will verify if the problem is due to terrestrial interference or a notch that affects only long runs of cable at this frequency

Can you try taking the receiver out to the dish on a very short cable run (in the dry only )?
 

rolfw

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#13
"the Switch you mention used to alter the frequency by 500 MHz downwards (and later there was an option of both 500 down and 500 up to allow older receivers to get stuff with newer LNBs - I think)"

There you go, never was any good with math. :)

Rolf
 
H

harmio

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#14
thanks very much. the thing is theres so many dodgy satellite dealers around i dont know who to turn to. im sure someone has these things lying around. and if that doesnt work ill try and get another digital reciever to try. its got to be something causing it.
 
H

harmio

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#15
with regard to changing the LNb : Ive already tried this system with the 60cm dish which has a very short cable run of about 7ft and i had the same problem. the LNB on my 1m dish is a completely different grudig LNB so the two LNB's are having the same problem which leads me to believe its not that. I dont know if its worth trying a third make of LNB? in which case I cant afford to anyway. Im still trying to get hold of one of these shifter things and failing.. If that fails I should really try a different reciever, but I dont know of any installer who'll come out and try his reciever without wanting £50 for nothing. ITs weird that I get ajara tv 12.675 v 4340 which is a very close frequency, and thats fine. Its odd.
 

ckrys1

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#16
Hi Harmio.
Had a look around and found one of these frequency extenders that Rolf talked about. It`s called an ADX plus, made by Global - as Rolf says it may not achieve anything but it`s small enough to send in the post so if you want it email me privately ([email protected]) with your address and I`ll pop it in the post.
I`ve a feeling it might be a receiver problem though,`cos I tried to reinstall Armenia TV today, and it came up `No channels to install`, despite a decent signal, and despite the fact that I can still watch it if I go to my previously stored channel. As you say, very odd.

Ckrys1
 

rolfw

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#17
So you're the one that has the last one Ckrys1 :) It should have a little switch inside the case that changes it from a down to an up converter.

Rolf
 

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#18
Odds on its the receiver

With a change of LNB (thereby confirming no trouble with the connector, AND a shorter run of cable.

As this is a very new form of science,

making a picture appear on a TV with the signal of a light bulb (twice ) over thousands of miles - and at a symbol rate that was unheard of till two years ago

there is every chance that the Korean designer of the box got it wrong with a particular set of component, with a even stranger chip set, and a software design based on trial and error.

The manufacturer is not likely to have much to say about it as they have moved on, the company that badges it even less, however its you thats scratching your head for an answer

The spec says it should work at this symbol rate and yet it doesnt. If another receiver does then you have recourse for compensation for what youve been put through.
 

ckrys1

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#20
Actually we found it in my son`s attic still attached to an old analogue receiver and yes it has a little black switch inside. Havn`t heard from Harmio yet to see if he wants it-I suppose it`s worth a try.

Ckrys1