devil's advocate discussion topic : referees

Sir Bronking

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#1
today's football, are referee's better or worse than times gone by
is there no consistancy in the game
is it an impossible task because of the rules imposed on them by the F.A.
or are simply trying to make themselves into some sort of celebrity via notoriaty?
do some referees favour certain teams and hinder others

i for one think that there is no consistency, for instance the game on sat chelsea v city the terribly obscene referee was wrong in not spotting drogba's blatent use of the arm, and wrong for dimissing distin (they say they don't want several player's moaning at the ref at once and if there's a grivance, it should be the captain that ask's the questions, (when he does in a civil manor he get's booked and sent off just because he didn't hand the ball back straight away, is that not a bit petty or an act of a man who knew he was wrong in the first count, so as he had no defence he... (i seem to remember styles was the ref that sent barton off v spur's a while back), yet you can have player's like drogba, van nistleroy doing a klinsman every game and nothing, you can have rooney and other's feffing and blinding....maybe we should have sinbin's for swearing, post video edvidence for charges of blatent cheating/diving. in drogba's interveiw he basically said he dived and it is part and parcel of the game. (is that right)
don't get me wrong i'm not upset just on city's behalf (well i am abit:( )

i just feel were not all playing on a level playing field a times

what do you think? :eek:
 
T_G

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#2
Prolem is Bronking, everybody agrees the refs are wrong only when the deceision goes against them - or in some cases where your team won.

We have had this discussion here before, and there have been many suggestions. As long as there is only one poor bastard of a ref running round on his own there will be problems. If they won't add at least one ref behind each goal facing the attack (he can change to either side of the goal) you will have diving, fouls, handballs, all the stuff the ref cannot see because he is chasing them...

Basketball with a much smaller court has 2 refs, American football has 5 or 7, only football has one main ref and two supports whose main issue is to look for offside, which means they are very focussed on keeping in line with the last defender. As they are sometimes on the far side of the incident and view blocked by other players they can't be blamed for not seeing it.

This is what I think should be done, in a game riddled with millions of $$$ hiring another two refs would not cost a lot but would make a BIG difference. But is Fifa going to listen to me? They haven't yet those impotent female dogs....
 
Zorba

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#3
How about 6 linesmen.2 on each side(half pitch each so they can keep up and view the play nearest to them) and 1 on each end to see if ball goes over the line and handballs(drogba stylie).
 
rolfw

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#4
Yes, that would be a good idea, they could certainly afford it in the Premiership and in European and World class matches. The game in the last 50 years has got faster and faster, yet we still basically only have the two linesmen and they are trying to watch for too many things whilst trying to keep up with the game.

So it'll be two offsiders per side of the pitch and two "Drogba officials" as they will become known, one at each end. :)
 
Topper

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#5
zorba said:
How about 6 linesmen.2 on each side(half pitch each so they can keep up and view the play nearest to them) and 1 on each end to see if ball goes over the line and handballs(drogba stylie).
Let's take the above a stage further to its logical conclusion. The only way to have a fair football match is to have 11 referees on either side and one player from each side being scrutinised by each of the 22 referees, everytime there was a supposed infringement they could have a poll and majority verdict would then choose the colour of the card.

This is just stupid, you either accept the game the way it is or just walk away from it. The technology is there to help FIFA the FA and uncle tom cobbly to analyse scrutinise and digest if they want to but the argument against that is interrupting the flow of the game.
 
rolfw

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#6
No I disagree, that's the old toothless argument I always see used, but being able to identify correctly an offside infringement, or a goal scored by using a hand, a professional foul, a dive, or the ball not crossing the line, would not interrupt one bit the flow of the game.

It may of course kill the conversation in the pub afterwards, as they'd have to talk about the football rather than the bad refereeing decisions. :-lmao
 
Zorba

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#7
So,rolfw,when DID you become a Reading fan :)
 
rolfw

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#8
Ever since I've been living in the town zorba, about 53 years (well perhaps a few years less, probably since I went to my first match at Elm Park, aged 11 years). :)

I wouldn't normally sport the badge (not really my thing), but in honour of their latest achievement (they have been a very frustrating team to support in the past), I thought I'd make the effort for a week or so. :)
 

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#9
rolfw said:
Ever since I've been living in the town zorba, about 53 years (well perhaps a few years less, probably since I went to my first match at 11 years old). :)

I wouldn't normally sport the badge (not really my thing), but in honour of their latest achievement (they have been a very frustrating team to support in the past), I thought I'd make the effort for a week or so. :)
And there was me thinking you were a balding bloke...:-rofl2
 
Zorba

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#10
You have lovely hair rolfw,but how did you lose your arm?:-rofl2
 
rolfw

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#11
Now I don't want any sexist comments, should be perfectly possible for an attractive blonde one armed girl to admin a forum without them :-lmao
 
T_G

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#12
zorba said:
You have lovely hair rolfw,but how did you lose your arm?:-rofl2
here is his arm :)
 

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#13
rolfw said:
No I disagree, that's the old toothless argument.
Firstly there's nothing wrong with my teeth, ;)
secondly my sarcastic post previously just supports what you're saying, the means is there whether it be with TV camera playbacks or 6 referees or 22 referees the means is there it is the desire that is not, the authorities would rather have the contraversy as even bad press is better than no press and as you quite rightly point out there would be nothing to talk about or indeed argue about in the pub later on. The truth is that you can talk about it until you are blue in the face, the only people who have control of it will change it the way they see fit and the paying public will have no say in it which is why I have not paid to go to a football match for over 40 years. In recent years I have talked to young fanatics who spend a large proportion of their salary travelling round supporting their club, lining the pockets of the grossly overpaid ballerina superstars, I have tried to make them see the error of their ways but alas to no avail. To get back on topic, being a ref is a bit like being a traffic warden except you get on the telly every week O-no
 
RedDevil_UK

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#14
heres my two peneth..

NO referee's are not worse now that ever before..

in the 60s if a ref made a bad decision between West Ham and Newcastle.... the only people talking about it was the fans that went!

now there is dozens of cameras at EVERY game, they miss nothing.... and when a bad decision is made, Radio, TV and internet websites show pictures, and explain all about it.

look at it from the refs point of view, imagine doing your job and 15 cameras and several microphones from every angle covered your every move.
then the tape was played back to all your collegues and bosses.... every day.

eventually you will make a mistake, and they all watch replays from several angles and discuss how useless you are.

can you imagine....nighmare!!

Thats the superb job the refs do.... and they dont get paid nearly enough.

as for more refs etc etc
we see the offenders for cheating, diving and causing injury now.... through video (usually SKY)... your not telling me the head guys at the FA and FIFA dont get a look the same way.

oh yes they do see, the same as you and me. but they choose to do nothing!

we dont need 11 refs..... we need an FA to help the refs

at the start of this i said in the 60s, but it wasnt as noticeable in the 70s or 80s either (match of the day only covered a few games) its got worse with the introduction of Sky sports.

now dont get me wrong, i dont hate sky sports, they have brought football to another level
but that much scrutiny from so many cameras, its not suprising we see a few mistakes.
 
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#15
You need 4 linesmen, and 2 referees on the pitch. This will give an unbaised option and better ability to the referres. Have any of you ever heard of Barry Knight??? That ba*tard kept bolton down in the championship for another year after his biased desisions a few years ago in a playoff semi final. He´s not allowed by the FA to referre Bolton or ipswich matches anymore. He sent off 2 of our players and booked 7. Gave penaltys and was a general waste of space. Referres should be kept regulated on a table, where you can see whos missed what, and the one with the least gets relegated to referreing championship matches, and the championships best referre get promoted to referreing premiership matches. I think that would solve the problem
 
Sir Bronking

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#16
rolfw said:
2004
Are they allowed 12 players?
Not being a Man U' fan, (in fact not really supporting any team) but always supporting the UK teams in the European competitions, am I alone in thinking that for a change, Man U' were the victims of a run of bad decisions tonight?

Isn't it about time they had another official, but off the pitch and with the use of video replay? I know everybody says that it'll slow the game down, but I'm not convinced.

The goal that was disallowed could have been almost instantly allowed, one or two of the dives could have been instantly spotted, just think that it would benefit the game in the long term.
rolfw said:
Ever since I've been living in the town zorba, about 53 years (well perhaps a few years less, probably since I went to my first match at Elm Park, aged 11 years). :)
ahem....:D
 
rolfw

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#17
LOL, Yes, in terms of the way some of the guys in this section support their teams, that is definitely the case, I can however guarantee that I have been to far more of Reading's matches (currently a Championship team), than the average Man' United or Liverpool ardent fan has been to Man' United's or liverpool's games. :-lmao

Also see the poll from over a year ago;) View attachment 5536 and I might add that I was regularly going to their matches when they were in the old third division, so not just a fair weather supporter.:)
 

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#18
As mentioned above with the aid of slow replays from all angles the ref was wrong, he had to make a instand decision and sometimes it is wrong but most of the time they are right.

When you have a local derby, or other crunch match, there is a lot going on, diving, shirt pulling[ there aught to be more fouls given for that] off the ball incidents. The ref has a lot to keep an eye on and he is going to miss some incidents.

What about offsides how many times is the player given offside when, after action replay, he was clearly onside. Not the ref's fault.

I attend Live matches regularly and the incident is so quick you wonder what he has blown for, but he has seen something and a fowl is awarded. But sometimes I see off the ball things that the ref missed cos he is miles away running the game.

The Everton game Furgerson comes on and commits a off the ball fowl the ref spotted it and a free kick was awarded What an idiot.[ Furgerson]
 
rolfw

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#19

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#20
I do think the video evidence makes there job harder, but they shouldnt get away with making bad mistakes all the time

i still think the brunt of our anger for such decisions should be aimed at the FA.

the FA employ these people.

if i was in charge of referees, i would be handing out some cards of my own to under performing refs... who constantly make mistakes, and just like in any other job, them that carry on making mistakes, wont be demoted to the championship, they would be sacked!
 
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