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DISH ALIGNMENT PROBLEMS?

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captainjim1

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#1
Need help,i`ve been trying for a week to set up a motorised digital system,the best i can get is Astra 28.5& Astra 19.2 most transponders with 55 to 85% signals, Hotbird a few transponders about 55% signal,Sirius 5*E 2 transponders 50% , Telecom 2B 5*W 55%,and Telstar 15W 50%,LNB is Spectra 200 ,with 1.8 m dish ,HYUNDAI receiver ,everything appears to be set up properly but obviously something`s wrong,help appreciated,thanks captainjim@ntlworld.com
 
J

jdhz

Guest
#2
Seems like your not doing too badly, more than two birds and you are on a roll.

You will get different signal levels for different satellites, but in order to get help you need to be more specific about your location and exactly which transponders you are not receiving well.

:-)
 
C

captainjim1

Guest
#3
HI, MY LOCATION IS DERRY N.I.,IT WOULD BE EASIER TO TELL THE TRANSPONDERS I CAN RECEIVE,TELSTAR TP1 11.150 GHZ,TELECOM 2B TPS 1&2 12.543&12.711,SIRIUS TPS 1,8&9 12.111,12.349,12.453, THOR TPS 8&9 11.174&11.677, TOO MANY ON ASTRA TO LIST, I AM USING LAT 55.08 ,HOPE THIS HELPS,CAPTAINJIM
 

2old4this

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#4
It sounds to me like your dish is not aligned properly.

With a fairly clear view and the size of dish you mention, you should be able to get down to sats at 68.5e and 45w (further west too, but there's not much in ku-band beyond that).
All transponders on Astra and Hotbird should be at 80% or more.
You don't say what the noise rating of your LNB is. Maybe you need a better LNB. Poor quality cables, or wet cables, or cables with a too-sharp bend in them can also result in signal loss.

Check the tips and instructions in the threads of this forum (eg "finding the arc").
Two most common problems: that the pole is not perfectly vertical and that the alignment due-south is not perfect. A fraction out on either of these and you will get the result you have.

2old
 
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jackpeas

Guest
#5
Hi and Hello, My name is jack and I live in chicago,Il in the usa.I have got dish alignment problem. Here is my system 4dtv 922 rec.36''venture arm,10ft DH satellite solid dish and 120ftrg6 cable. Everything is new but the feed and ku lnb. My south sat is AMC3 (w3&k3) @87 deg. I am getting good signal 70 on some sat. I have been to sat web site like (Geo-orbit) polar mount,declination,Inclination. Now let me try explain where am I. On my solid dish there is a 48'' ring with 4 stud bolts welded to this ring, 2at the top 2at the bottom(2 at the top what we are concern with.They are double nuts for adjusting the declination. My problem is to put all Info together get the dish to track the arc.I have meter(buzz I meter,sat-finder,arc-set,canary) books to many to name.This is my 3rd dish i have installed but I can not align. I call out sat service person to align my wineguard dish and he did. Now about 3 week ago I call out sat service person (all he wanted to do play with my 922) I order the skyvision video on align the dish. I see it but it dont click for me. help help I need help with the big boy(dish alignment) jackp n Chicago
 

Old Satellite

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#6
The 58.0 West satellite on Panamsat 9 (this is newish satellite)has one transponder at 11.477MHZ Horizontal that is around 49 DB (in most parts of Europe)so if you have clear access from your location this may help during the setup.

Always setup your system at the highest part of the arc typically at your location 1.0 west.

Has others have already highlighted there are many help sections here on this site plus a good one at at www.geo-orbit.org

Old Satellite
 

Old Satellite

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#7
Sorry jackpeas, I missed your request, Your DH spun alumininum dish has a beam width on KU band of less than 1.0 degree so the alignment has to be perfect.

Do you have a corotor on your system for both C and KU ?

have you correctly set the declination angle ?

Are both of the bolts on the declination the same if you measure them?

What is your location in the US ?

I have a 3.7 mtr myself and a 1.8 both on H-H mounts so I understand your problems?

Old Satellite
 
J

jackpeas

Guest
#8
Dear Old Satellite,Yes I have a coroto feed on my dish at this time.I also Adl 2c &2ku feed. This is 3rd dish I have Installed,1 radio shack(8.5 H H dish came with 2014 receiver) 2 wineguard 10 ft quarstar( my best dish, which I still have. Now DH Satellite 10 ft. My dish is on a 15ft pole/5ft in the ground.I have to used 8ft step ladder to change the feed.Here what I do,I take a small tv out to dish.I got a cable coming from the receiver connected to the tv out to the dish. Now I move my dish to AMC3(k3)tp600 digital(pbs) signal 100 quality 99.Here where I used my angle finder to adjust the elevation to 41.5. There is a 48'' ring with 4 weld studs bolts.(this is for declination)The 2top studs is the one that move the dish foward (some say 5.74 and other say 6.30) I used the 6.3 something but they pop in. I almost used all of the 6''stud up but I could not get the other sat. (I was told you only these nuts a little but I move them 31 turn) After not getting it to track the arc and it was late. I turn 31 time back where I started from. I will try again But if it dont work I wil put my wineguard back up. It already aligned.Yes I getting sat but it not align. I am losing my digital. AMC7 w7 fox come in good. thank you jackp n chicago
 
J

jackpeas

Guest
#9
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 22-May-02 AT 10:02 PM (GMT)]HI and Hello, on 21 May I tried to align the dish again.Now let me try to explain what we did. We have a tv set at the dish(to watch if the signal get better) The dish ANC3(k3@87 deg)tp 600 signal100 quality99. I can not used this one(max out) ( we go c-band side w3 @87 deg. This where signal drop down to 70.This with elevation at 41.5. Now we adjust the declination to 6.5 foward tilt. We turn elevation rod to 48.5 and they pop in. On the 2 stud bolts(about 6'' long almost used it up) All this on my southmost-highest sat. Now we started to go west to T4@ 89 deg(come in reallity good. We keep checking the satellites until we get to E2@111 deg. We get sparkler. M 5 dont come in, G O @123 deg lot of sparkler. W 7 come in good. Now on the East end AMC2 come really good.AMC 5 not good at all. Everthing from there is bad. I would get some out (sat-servicman) to align it if I could find good one.We tried the push up and pull down(checking the elevation) I call the maker of the dish DH Satellite and ask about the feed horn placment. He said 35 5/8 from the dish to the feed face. So I change to 36 it made it clear. It a 10ft dish. I dont know the dept. I will get next time. Thank you jackp n Chicago Now It afternoon I was checking the sat on the east end.Nss 806@40.5 deg Tp 31 came in so my fta receiver some program. That the only one I could get. I got trees all around me.But it dont block the sat I need for alignment.It seem to me that Iam good at W7,C4,That west end and east end Nss806 come in.But i am missing m5,p9,b6 w6 and few more. I am confused
 

Old Satellite

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#10
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 23-May-02 AT 09:20 AM (GMT)]Sorry for the delay in reply

Seams that your problem may be within setting the true highest point of the polar arc devide East /West

Please try the following set 87.0 GE3 etc has you have previously to your high point declination,Inclination correct for your location.

Mark your pole from the starting point. masking tape and pencil works well.

Set up channels in KU band only if you track the C band first then you will after fine tune the whole process again.
Then slowly rotate with your jack to the next satellite lets say GE 1 (103.0)which should be a good signal and then turn opposite to Galaxy 6 etc.
Check the signal at all three locations. gently lift the dish (Manually)slightly at Ge 1 and Galaxy 6 to see which way you need to move the dish.

If you have to raise the dish at GE 1 for example then rotate the polor mount and dish in 1.0 degree steps on the pole, rotate the dish towards the east etc.

Only make small adjustments (1/16 of inch on your pole is equal appox to 1.0degree(4.5 inch Pole)

let me know what happens

PS your DH dish is normally one of the highest quality of satellite antennas that can be purchased.

Also genrally as you know the ADI feedhorn is generally providing around 1.0db more signal /less noise than the older Co rotor.

Old Satellite
 
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jackpeas

Guest
#11
Hi and Hello,Yes I will used AMC3 ku (k3@87 deg) I have the tape on the dish already. I think the inclination and declination are right. When I put my angle finder on the 48''ring it read 48.5 -6.5=42 +48=90 I hope that the it go.Iam getting signal of 80 on G4r@99 deg.Next I will try 1/16 east west movement. I will get back with you when I have more info. Thank you for be so kind and helpful. My(2c&2ku) dual ADL feed need to be repair or get a new one.The ku side I cann't lock it down.I have another ADL feed,3 or 4 feeds in all. The reason I got the dual(2c&2ku) lnb feed is because of all my receiver.I wanted to watch difference program on difference receiver.
 

Old Satellite

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#12
Please also additional note that each time you rotate your polor mount please remember to lock the bolt positions.And mark the pole and write the results down!

Then try the three satellites once more. do not touch either your decliantion or elevation in the process.

ps I am travelling at the moment on business so if there is a delay dont worry I will get back to you later

Good look

Old Satellite
 
J

jackpeas

Guest
#13
Hi and Hello,I am going out of town too. I will be back on May 26.Is it just you and me in this forum? Yes I have the coroto(c/ku) feed.I am picking something on NSS806 tp 31,32 (same thing) I cannot make it out.But my fta receiver is coming in clear. Thank you again jackp n Chicago
 

rolfw

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#14
No there are others on the forum as well, but it would appear that Old Satellite is more than capably assisting with your situation.

rolf
 
J

jackpeas

Guest
#15
Hello, I have The Arc-set tool from(gourmet entertaining) Jim Roberts the maker.I also have the canary(sing a song)for finding satellite. These are alignment tools. I also have electicronic level. On may 23 I tried to align the dish again and fail.On the 29may I will do it again. jack p N Chicago
 

Channel Hopper

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#16
From the thread it does sound as though there is something basic that is not working on the system

1) Is there any play anywhere in the system
check carefully the following in this order, post and foundation - should be ROCK solid), canister bolts that clamp to the post (these will have to be loose when assembling but when tightening should not change the dish alignment), main tracking bolt on both top and bottom bearings, elevation bolt.

2) Is the post the one recommended for the antenna. If its too small in diameter the movement of the antenna when moving from East to West it will create some additional movement of the post and change the arc settings.

3) The focal point should be correct from your comments but the boresight may be out slightly. Check the corotor ring is the same distance to the edge of the dish all round.

Hope this is of use
 
J

jackpeas

Guest
#17
HI, I going out to the now dish and check the feed from 3 point. When I order the dish for a 3'' pipe. My wineguard is 3''pipe. There is a little flex in the pipe. You are saying the righ things. When I got this dish my wineguard was working very good. I wanted to get abetter picture. I had sat serviceperson come out and align it and he did agood job. So I took the wineguard down, thinking that everything would be smooth. It been almost 1 year. I did not know it was not tracking the arc. Until the leaves came of the trees and Ge5(k5@79deg) sbs6,w6,k6 did not come in good at all. I got alignment video and book from skyvision Thank you very much for helping me.Jackp n Chicago
 

Channel Hopper

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#18
Its a long time since I assembled a Wineguard dish, but the 1.9m units (petalise in 12 pieces ?) had a 3.5" post

If you are using a 3" post this will cause trouble. You will have to make a sleeve to pack it out
 
J

jackpeas

Guest
#19
HI, feedhorn issuse 1 Its hart to measure the scalar ring to the dish rim lip(the outter edge trun down) I can not tell if the scalar ring is center are not. I can take the feed out. 2 When I tape measure from the dish to the feed its 36''. On the side of the feed line for 30,32, 34,36,38,40,42 (42 line is what Iam useing) because I would never get 36''.And that why I called the maker of the dish DH Satellite.I was asking about f/d for the feed . He told me to set it at 35 5/8(from the center to the face of the feed.He did not care about the number on the side.My Question is where is the scalar ring support collar should be(how far from the center of the dish out?On the 4 legs that hold the collar for the scalar ring (2 set of hole for adjusting the in and out) That why I had it at 35 5/8 then I move it to 36'' and the picture got better. Now let start over and get this thing righ. I will take your advice on how to do this.How do I measure from the scalar ring out to the edge? To make sure the feed is center. I dont want to eyeball it, that not good. Maybe I can use a yard stick and a clamp. That is the best I can come up with. You got any Ideal? Next when I put 2x4 across the face of the dish to check the depth.22 1/2'' ok. This is from the manual for the dish.(If the feedhorn you have selected has an adjustable scalar ring. Move it to the proper wave guide setting as per the manuacturer's Instructions. Below we have listed the focal lenghts and focal length/diameter ritios for our commercial antenna and you will have the information to set the scaler properly.
10' (3m) 36''f/1 .3f/d * 11' (3.3m) 36''f/1 .27f/d 12' (3.6m) 36''f/1 .25f/d Under fine tuning Set the feed at the exact focal lenght we recommend. It will either be 36''or 57.6''(This does not take into effect the allowance for the feed manufacturers recommendation that the focal length be 1/4'' inside the waveguide for C-band and1/8''for Ku. Than you jackp n Chicago
 
J

jackpeas

Guest
#20
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 30-May-02 AT 10:26 AM (GMT)]Hi,Yes it came with 3.5 or 3'' pipe canister. It fit good its tight on the pole. ok jackp n chicago My wineguard is asweet dish. I got this fro skyvision+tacker10 receiver.Which I still have. And I chaparral monterey 95. My power supply went bad on my ST 7700 fta receiver and I replace it. I also have the HUtec skylineI fta receiver. I think I have 5 arms 4or5 feeds just in case somthing break. Sorry about being thick headed(not unstanding) taking so much of your time. I go back in late 80 with onsat,mag and f4 or c4 was east in the80 longitude. Iam not going to bore you anymore for now.