Advice Needed Enigma2 With Motorised Twin LNB and Fixed 28.2 dish.

M

Mickha

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It will work, providing you have everything set up correctly, starting with the motorized dish.
If setting up the motorized dish, without the Diseqc switch, you run one cable, from the twin LNB, to the motor, then a cable, from the motor to your receiver, either Tuner A, or Tuner B.
You then run the second cable, directly from the LNB, to the other Tuner, on your receiver.
You then set the Tuners up.
When adding a Diseqc switch you simply add it between the cable, from the motor, to the receiver. I'm surprised your motor works, from your diagram, as you have the LNB cable going into the Diseqc switch, then to the motor.
The only problem you might run into, is when recording programs on 28.2E, because if it uses the motorized dish, for the recording, instead of the fixed dish, you will not be able to view other satellites.
 
A

a33

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XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
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I'm surprised your motor works, from your diagram, as you have the LNB cable going into the Diseqc switch, then to the motor.
That, however, is the 'normal' setup for a motor.
The motor has an internal loopthrough (just a band of copper), so is totally transparant for ALL signals and commands.
This setup avoids motor current through the diseqc switch; though these days the diseqc switches usually can manage that, it is still common practice (when not using two motors) to set it up 'the old way' (better safe than sorry for the switches!).

The issue here is the use of the motor for two tuners, in combination with one satellite fixed (on just one tuner).
Has to do with just one tuner having motor command, and 'priority' of tuners while recording.
However I've no experience whatsoever with multiple tuners, so cannot help you further there.
But i remember vaguely reading that there are a bunch of possibilities in the 'priority setup'...

Is there an item with 'priority' in your tuner/LNB setups?

Greetz,
A33
 
RustySpoons

RustySpoons

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Hi A33,

That's the problem because if I put switch before motor then because 28.2e is on Diseqc Port B the motor doesn't see the command.

If I put the Motor before the switch the STB won't send motor commands if I'm recording on 28.2e because it knows the motor dish is on Tuner A and Diseqc Port A and that Port B is already in use so just greys out the other channels and satellites.

I'm going to either have to buy another STB or get one with a triple or quad tuner.
Or another motorised dish :)
 
M

Mickha

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My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
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Have you tried running the first cable, from the Gibertini dish, to the motor, then out of the motor to Tuner A, then run the second cable, to the Diseqc switch, combined with 28.2E, and run that to Tuner B?

You can set preferences for which tuner, you wish to use, for recording, and viewing.
 
RustySpoons

RustySpoons

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My Satellite Setup
50E - 30W
2x CM 1.2m Polar Mount/Jack
65E- 65W
Gibertini 1m OP100 - STAB HH100 - Inverto Black Ultra 0.2 Twin
Mutant HD51
Edision Primo IP S2
Dreambox DM800HD
Venton Unibox HD2
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My Location
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Have you tried running the first cable, from the Gibertini dish, to the motor, then out of the motor to Tuner A, then run the second cable, to the Diseqc switch, combined with 28.2E, and run that to Tuner B?

You can set preferences for which tuner, you wish to use, for recording, and viewing.
Yes I tried that way as well.
But there is no real way to configure it in Enigma2, as when setting it up you assign the Diseqc ports to 28.2 on Port B Tuner B, then you have the rest of the Satellites on Port A Tuner B, but E2 then thinks the box has a motor on Tuner B (Which there isn't as it's controlled from Tuner A), there is no way to tell it that the LNB is the same one that's on the motor dish.
 
M

Mickha

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My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
North West
You can in Enigma 2, at least on the images I've tried.
Why not set the motor up manually, instead of using USALS, use Diseqc 1.2, then set the option to use USALS to No, and manually assign each satellite, to a different number, e.g. 19.2E = 1, 16E = 2, 13E = 3, etc.. You then use the menu options to manually move your dish, to each satellite, then store the satellite on the corresponding number.

Without access, to your receiver, there is no way to set it up, but if you keep trying different settings, you should be able to get it working. I would still start by getting the motorized dish working and only adding the fixed dish after the motorized system is working.
 
RustySpoons

RustySpoons

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My Satellite Setup
50E - 30W
2x CM 1.2m Polar Mount/Jack
65E- 65W
Gibertini 1m OP100 - STAB HH100 - Inverto Black Ultra 0.2 Twin
Mutant HD51
Edision Primo IP S2
Dreambox DM800HD
Venton Unibox HD2
Sony Bravia 55" 4K
My Location
South Wales
You can in Enigma 2, at least on the images I've tried.
Why not set the motor up manually, instead of using USALS, use Diseqc 1.2, then set the option to use USALS to No, and manually assign each satellite, to a different number, e.g. 19.2E = 1, 16E = 2, 13E = 3, etc.. You then use the menu options to manually move your dish, to each satellite, then store the satellite on the corresponding number.

Without access, to your receiver, there is no way to set it up, but if you keep trying different settings, you should be able to get it working. I would still start by getting the motorized dish working and only adding the fixed dish after the motorized system is working.
The motorised side works perfectly, it's only become a nightmare when trying to add the switch for the fixed dish and using the second tuner.
It all works fine if I just have the motor and fixed dish on one tuner input.

If I use Diseqc instead if Usals I still run in to the same issue. Because if I'm using Port B on the diseqc switch for 28.2 and I want to move the dish the receiver wont send a move command to the motor.

If I put the fixed dish and motor dish lnb 2nd output on Tuner B with the switch there is no way to tell it that the Motor is on Tuner A.

Ideally E2 needs a setting like "Second cable from motorised dish" with a diseqc switch option as well
 
M

Mickha

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My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
North West
You've set Tuner A up as the motor, so you can set your preferred Tuner to A, from Auto, which should have it starting with Tuner A.
Without knowing your image, and options, I can't tell where the problem is, unless it is with the Diseqc switch, or your receiver.
There shouldn't be a problem setting up a motor, and fixed dish/dishes/LNB's on the same tuner.
There are probably videos, on youtube, showing how to set up your receiver, or at least guides, for your image.
 
RustySpoons

RustySpoons

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2,336
My Satellite Setup
50E - 30W
2x CM 1.2m Polar Mount/Jack
65E- 65W
Gibertini 1m OP100 - STAB HH100 - Inverto Black Ultra 0.2 Twin
Mutant HD51
Edision Primo IP S2
Dreambox DM800HD
Venton Unibox HD2
Sony Bravia 55" 4K
My Location
South Wales
You've set Tuner A up as the motor, so you can set your preferred Tuner to A, from Auto, which should have it starting with Tuner A.
Without knowing your image, and options, I can't tell where the problem is, unless it is with the Diseqc switch, or your receiver.
There shouldn't be a problem setting up a motor, and fixed dish/dishes/LNB's on the same tuner.
There are probably videos, on youtube, showing how to set up your receiver, or at least guides, for your image.
Thank you, I think it's a E2 limitation and I appreciate all the advice you have given today.

The issue is not with having a motor dish and fixed dish on one tuner, the issue arises when I use one motorised dish feeding two tuners with a fixed dish as well.

Seems I can do either of the following with no issues.

Motorised Dish, Twin LNB feeding tuner A and Tuner B
Motorised Dish feeding Tuner A and Fixed dish feeding Tuner B
Diseqc Switch > Motorised dish + Fixed Dish on Tuner A

But I cannot have Motorised Dish Twin LNB going to Tuner A and B, with a fixed dish with a switch on one of the Tuners.
 
A

a33

Specialised Contributor
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525
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XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
My Location
NL
I'm not getting something here.
Why do you want motor control AND a fixed 28E on one tuner?
I'd guess you'd want 28E fixed on the non-motorcontrol tuner, to be able to see or record at 28E while the motorcontrolled LNB is aimed at another satellite.
What am I missing?

Furthermore: Have you looked into the 'preferred tuner' settings (as Mickha wrote), and what they mean?
And into the 'priority' setting for the LNB, and what it means?
Or are these really irrelevant subjects for cases like this? I must confess I know nothing of Enigma or dual tuner setups from experience; it is only from what I've been vaguely reading.

If the two tuners with motor (but still without fixed 28E) functioned flawlessly, I would guess a solution might possibly be in that corner.


Greetz,
A33
 
M

Mickha

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1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
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Enigma 2 receivers can be set to work with motorized, and fixed dishes, on one Tuner, it is just more complicated, as you have to use the Advanced tuner settings, and set things up correctly, with the Diseqc switch.
 
RustySpoons

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2x CM 1.2m Polar Mount/Jack
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Gibertini 1m OP100 - STAB HH100 - Inverto Black Ultra 0.2 Twin
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Dreambox DM800HD
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My Location
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What i'm trying to do is have a fixed dish on 28.2e and both LNB feeds from the motor dish to the STB.

In my house my other half will usually have a timed recording on 28.2e and I want to be able to change channels on 28.2e
or watch something on another Satellite. So that's why I put the fixed dish up for 28.2e and it's quicker than moving the dish as that satellite is the most used here (My other half lol)

I thought if I use both feeds off my motor dish I can watch/record off what ever Satellite it is sat on, or stream to the other room.
And by having the fixed dish there on one of the Tuners with a Diseqc switch it can quickly go to 28.2e or record 28.2e when the motor dish is on another satellite.

The problem with having motorised dish on Tuner A and the 28.2e dish on Tuner B is I only have 1 LNB on the motorised dish connected to the STB so cannot watch/stream other channels if its recording anything on the motorised dish.

I do have 2x 1.2m CM here as well, but one is being used for Es'Hail2/QO100 Tx/Rx, the other is on a Moteck H180 I haven't put up yet, I could just have 2 motorised dishes on the Mutant but thought there must be a way to have both tuners working on the Motorised dish and one of those tuners being able to switch to the Fixed 28.2e dish as well.
 
A

a33

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Rebox RE-9000
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So, from what I've just read e.g. here ( VU+ SOLO2. Tuner problem. - Page 2 - [EN] Enduser support ), the two tuners of a box don't always succeed in cooperating with each other without flaws.
Don't know if that kind of issue still persists, and also (still) applies to your box and your image.

In your case it seems indeed more logical to have fixed 28E combined with non-motorcontrol LNB output on one tuner, I would think; and use only that tuner for recordings.
Can you set a fixed or preferred tuner for recordings?

That way you can rotate satellites with the other tuner freely ~ that is, when you're not recording from a non-28E satellite at that time, and have to have your motor stay put.

If you can share channel lists between the tuners, or if you have to setup two separate channel lists, would be another question.
Probably the non-motorcontrol channellist would then have to have a 'fictive' diseqc setup for all non-28e satellites (use fictive diseqc 1.2 commands and/or fictive diseqc 1.1 commands, to distinguish between satellites).

That is what I can think of, not hindered by any practical experience of an Enigma Box. :confused

greetz,
A33
 
RustySpoons

RustySpoons

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2,336
My Satellite Setup
50E - 30W
2x CM 1.2m Polar Mount/Jack
65E- 65W
Gibertini 1m OP100 - STAB HH100 - Inverto Black Ultra 0.2 Twin
Mutant HD51
Edision Primo IP S2
Dreambox DM800HD
Venton Unibox HD2
Sony Bravia 55" 4K
My Location
South Wales
So, from what I've just read e.g. here ( VU+ SOLO2. Tuner problem. - Page 2 - [EN] Enduser support ), the two tuners of a box don't always succeed in cooperating with each other without flaws.
Don't know if that kind of issue still persists, and also (still) applies to your box and your image.

In your case it seems indeed more logical to have fixed 28E combined with non-motorcontrol LNB output on one tuner, I would think; and use only that tuner for recordings.
Can you set a fixed or preferred tuner for recordings?

That way you can rotate satellites with the other tuner freely ~ that is, when you're not recording from a non-28E satellite at that time, and have to have your motor stay put.

If you can share channel lists between the tuners, or if you have to setup two separate channel lists, would be another question.
Probably the non-motorcontrol channellist would then have to have a 'fictive' diseqc setup for all non-28e satellites (use fictive diseqc 1.2 commands and/or fictive diseqc 1.1 commands, to distinguish between satellites).

That is what I can think of, not hindered by any practical experience of an Enigma Box. :confused

greetz,
A33
That's one problem, if I put the non motorcontrolled LNB output and fixed dish on Tuner B with a switch the STB/Enigma2 has no idea that it's on the motorised dish and treats both as fixed so never moves. Because it does not have the intelligence to realise that all it needs to do is send a command to Tuner A to move. If I say okay Tuner B is motorised too it sends the move command up Tuner B not A.
If there is no fixed dish it's quite simple for Tuner B you can just select "Second cable of motorised dish" and it knows to send the move command on Tuner A.
If only someone could programme "Second cable of motorised dish" with a Diseqc option below to select the fixed dish when needed.
 
Tururu

Tururu

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Recycled as the owner.
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@a33
The problem of the VU+Solo2 continues, it is a hardware/driver defect (without solving since its launch to the market) the loop communication of tuners A and B (in this sense A => B does not work).
With a single cable to the receiver, it has to be connected to tuner B.
Tuner A looped to Tuner B works very well. (B => Loop => A)
In other receivers, they work well.

@RustySpoons
The priority / use of antennas in enigma receivers in general is.
1.-Fixed antenna.
2.- DiSEqC
3.- Motor

The most used satellite to tuner A in general.
The engine always better in Tuner B (the last one you have).
If everything is well configured, it works very well.

Internal loop in general only VU+ have it, be careful.
Mutant HD51 does not have a loop between the tuners, it needs an external distributor (with feeding step).
It can be configured, but you need the splitter. (DC-pass).
--------
El problema del VU+Solo2 continua, es un defecto de hardware/driver (sin solucionar desde su lanzamiento al mercado) la comunicacacion en bucle de los tuner A y B (en este sentido no funciona A=>B.).
Con un solo cable al receptor, se tiene que conectar al tuner B.
El tuner A configurado en bucle al tuner B, funciona muy bien. (B=>LBucle=>A)
En otros receptores, funcionan bien.

@RustySpoons
La prioridad/uso de las antenas en receptores enigma en general es.
1.-Antena Fija.
2.- DiSEqC
3.- Motor

El satelite mas usado al tuner A en general.
El motor siempre mejor en el tuner B (el ultimo que tengas).
Si todo esta bien configurado, funciona muy bien.

Bucle interno en general solo lo tienen los VU+, cuidado.
Mutant HD51 no tiene bucle entre los tuner, necesita un repartidor externo (con paso de alimentacion).
Se puede configurar, pero necesita el repartidor (con paso de alimentacion).
 
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RustySpoons

RustySpoons

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My Satellite Setup
50E - 30W
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65E- 65W
Gibertini 1m OP100 - STAB HH100 - Inverto Black Ultra 0.2 Twin
Mutant HD51
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Dreambox DM800HD
Venton Unibox HD2
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Hi Tururu

The problem I'm having is not priority or loops.

It's because I want to use the Twin LNB going to Tuner 1 and Tuner 2, plus I want to add a fixed dish to either of those tuners with a diseqc switch.
I can't figure out how to tell Enigma2 that both LNB's are attached to the same motorised dish and if it needs 28.2e select the diseqc switch.

It all works fine if I use 1 LNB on the motor Dish and 1 LNB on the fixed dish on the diseqc port of one tuner.

Updated diagrams of what I have tried:

125659125660
 
M

Mickha

Super Moderator
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5,393
My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
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What are theTuner settings, you have tried, when using configuration 2?
Tuner 1, the motorized setup, should work, as there's no need to use the advanced option, just a basic motorized setup, but what have you tried with tuner 2?
 
RustySpoons

RustySpoons

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Messages
2,336
My Satellite Setup
50E - 30W
2x CM 1.2m Polar Mount/Jack
65E- 65W
Gibertini 1m OP100 - STAB HH100 - Inverto Black Ultra 0.2 Twin
Mutant HD51
Edision Primo IP S2
Dreambox DM800HD
Venton Unibox HD2
Sony Bravia 55" 4K
My Location
South Wales
What are theTuner settings, you have tried, when using configuration 2?
Tuner 1, the motorized setup, should work, as there's no need to use the advanced option, just a basic motorized setup, but what have you tried with tuner 2?
Tuner 2
Advanced
USALS All, Diseqc A, 28.2e Diseqc B, but that makes it think there is a motor on B so that doesn't work.
 
M

Mickha

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Staff member
Messages
5,393
My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
North West
In the setup configuration have you set Tuner A to be the preferred tuner?
What configuration settings, have you tried, for Tuner B, Diseqc 1.0, Diseqc 1.1, Diseqc 1.2, Diseqc 1.3?
 
Tururu

Tururu

Assembled with recycled parts
Messages
2,787
My Satellite Setup
90cm motorised dishes(98x90)+fixed+multiLNB+24Unicable.
Currently 55 satellites, 61°West to 57°East.

DB800S-HD VU+DUO2, VU+Ultimo4K, TBS5925, OctagonSX88.
Recycled as the owner.
My Location
North of Madrid (28703 Spain) -3Km of IKEA (40.545847, -3.612012).:-)
It was a clarification for fellow a33 the theme of the loop.

It is not a logical configuration because of the losses it has and I do not use it.
Enigma is lia.
An option that other partners have, without touching prorities, all by default.

Tuner 1, Advanced DiSEqC 2x1.
In port A, mouth A of the DiSEqC, you tell him that it has an engine (I put photo).
Several companions with motor connected after a DiSeqC, this works for them.
Tuner 2, Second motor cable (LNB.).
------------------------
Fue una aclaracion para el compañero a33 el tema del bucle.

No es una configuracion logica por las perdidas que tiene y no la uso.
Enigma se lia.
Una opcion que tienen otros compañeros, sin tocar prioridades, todo por defecto.

Tuner 1, Avanzado DiSEqC 2x1.
En el puerto A, boca A del DiSEqC, le dices que tiene motor (pongo foto).
Varios compañeros con motor conectado despues de un DiSeqC, asi les funciona.

Tuner 2, Segundo cable del motor (LNB.).
DiSEqC-Motor.png
DiSEqC-Motor.png

PD: Suerte/Luck.
 
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