How can I pick up satellite UPLINKS?

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tyshaunty

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#1
Please can anyone help me?

I'm trying to get pictures for major sporting events

Speed is the most important thing

At the moment, I watch Sky pictures, and find I am often 3-4 seconds behind what is actually "live" coverage



I understand that it might be possible to pick up "uplink" pictures, which would be faster. Is this possible?



I have absolutely no idea about this subject at all. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thank you
 
Lancelot

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#2
Uplinks are from the event and are pointed directly at the satellite so the answer is no I'm afraid. :(

But if you mean things that are relayed and then put out on 28 east then yes a lot of people watch these they are known as 'Feeds'


L.
 
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tyshaunty

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#3
Lancelot said:
Uplinks are from the event and are pointed directly at the satellite so the answer is no I'm afraid. :(

But if you mean things that are relayed and then put out on 28 east then yes a lot of people watch these they are known as 'Feeds'


L.


Thanks for your reply

So are you saying there is absolutely no way I can get the uplinks? Cost may well not be a factor?

And these feeds that you talk about? Can i pick those up? And what would I need to pick them up? And what would the delay difference be between the feed and Sky Sports?
 
Lancelot

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#4
I'm afraid it's not cost it's physics.

Imagine pointing your sky dish at the ground and expecting a signal. Thats the sort of thing I'm getting at as dishes are very directional.

As for the feeds these are fairly randomly placed on the whole and cannot be relied upon to any great extent. It depends on where in the world the event is and who is providing coverage. We have been asked this question before by people with an interest in beating the bookies. I'm afraid it can't be done this way.


L.
 
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tyshaunty

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#5
Lancelot said:
I'm afraid it's not cost it's physics.

Imagine pointing your sky dish at the ground and expecting a signal. Thats the sort of thing I'm getting at as dishes are very directional.

As for the feeds these are fairly randomly placed on the whole and cannot be relied upon to any great extent. It depends on where in the world the event is and who is providing coverage. We have been asked this question before by people with an interest in beating the bookies. I'm afraid it can't be done this way.


L.
Thanks, you're being very helpful

So is there any way I can pick up these Sky pictures any faster? At the moment, I estimate they are 4 seconds behind live? Can I get them via an analogue system at all?

Thanks again

If you have a favourite charity, please can you post it up here, and I'll chuck a fiver their way this week (Assuming I can find a way of donating to them online). Really appreciate your help
 
Lancelot

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#6
No problem :)

Analogue is only a way of transmitting information on the same RF beam as the digital transmission uses, so the time lag will essentially be the same.
You can see what the lag is like if you have $ky in the lounge and an analogue portable in the kitchen tuned to the same station ~1 sec or so.

As for donations you could always put your fiver here to help with the costs of the server etc. That way it helps loads of others too. :D

Any questions - dont hesitate , we are a friendly bunch here.


L.
 
Analoguesat

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#7
If yaou watch the Formula 1 on ITV and RTL, ITV is indeed 3 - 4 seconds behind the RTL pictures, the time lag must be getting introduced by the digital and-or scrambling encoding / decoding processes. (With contributions from an extra satellite hop maybe) Which makes a mockery of the term "live transmissions"

As for the OP's question. The only way to watch the uplinks would be to be sitting on the satellites :D

As for feeds, it really depends on what you are wanting. If its for the gee gees, then its possible to get direct some trackfeeds off an elderly and wobbly satellite at 20W. You could join one of the yahoo feedhunter groups to see the sorts of things that are available with the right kit.
 
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tyshaunty

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#8
Analoguesat said:
If yaou watch the Formula 1 on ITV and RTL, ITV is indeed 3 - 4 seconds behind the RTL pictures, the time lag must be getting introduced by the digital and-or scrambling encoding / decoding processes. (With contributions from an extra satellite hop maybe) Which makes a mockery of the term "live transmissions"

As for the OP's question. The only way to watch the uplinks would be to be sitting on the satellites :D

As for feeds, it really depends on what you are wanting. If its for the gee gees, then its possible to get direct some trackfeeds off an elderly and wobbly satellite at 20W. You could join one of the yahoo feedhunter groups to see the sorts of things that are available with the right kit.


Thanks both of you



I'm not into horse racing, although that might be something I look into in the future

My main interests are tennis, golf and cricket. Expecially tennis

At the moment, tennis shown by Sky is generally about 4 seconds behind live. So are you saying, from your comments about ITV, that other channels may be showing faster pictures because of the way they process the information?

I have a motorised dish in my house, but to be honest, I've found it far too confusing to use. I thought before that it wouldnt give any improvement because it was digital, the same as sky.

But you think this might not be the case?

Thanks again, and please excuse my complete technical ignorance

(Lancelot - How do I send you that fiver then? Paypal?)
 
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Likvid

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#9
RTT or round trip time from uplink to downlink at your dish is about 330ms.

That's what you loose and why satellite is not good for Internet relay if you need fast response times.

If the live coverage is uplinked and downlinked and uplinked again to several satellies in the chain it will add just more delay.
 
Analoguesat

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#10
Im not trying to be funny, but does it matter if you are 3 or 4 seconds behind "live" in a tennis match? I can understand the problem for specialised betting on the horses.
 
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tyshaunty

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#11
Analoguesat said:
Im not trying to be funny, but does it matter if you are 3 or 4 seconds behind "live" in a tennis match? I can understand the problem for specialised betting on the horses.

Yep, 3 or 4 seconds is absolutely huge, as important, if not more, than horse racing

1/4 of a second is important. Being 3 or 4 seconds behind is absolutely huge
 
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tyshaunty

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#12
Likvid said:
RTT or round trip time from uplink to downlink at your dish is about 330ms.

That's what you loose and why satellite is not good for Internet relay if you need fast response times.

If the live coverage is uplinked and downlinked and uplinked again to several satellies in the chain it will add just more delay.


so are you suggesting that the delay on Sky Sports is because they are uplinking and downlinking several times?

Sorry, as I said, I really dont know much about this stuff
 
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kebabinho

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#13
i doubt there is a way of getting rid of the delay. ive been trying to sort out the delay with TPS regarding the football. i have the picture from TPS and the audio from radio5 off my dgibox and its way out.
 
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#14
tyshaunty said:
so are you suggesting that the delay on Sky Sports is because they are uplinking and downlinking several times?

Sorry, as I said, I really dont know much about this stuff
It may do an extra hop, but even a 2 or 3 arent going to add up to more than a second or so. The main delays are more likely to be introduced by the encrypting then decrypting required.

If you think of a signal being transmitted from a football stadium, then its going through numerous framestores, encoders, possibly optic fiber links, then maybe a double or triple bounce via satellite, before it ever reaches the decoder in your living room. All these stages add a bit more delay.
 
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tyshaunty

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Analoguesat said:
It may do an extra hop, but even a 2 or 3 arent going to add up to more than a second or so. The main delays are more likely to be introduced by the encrypting then decrypting required.

If you think of a signal being transmitted from a football stadium, then its going through numerous framestores, encoders, possibly optic fiber links, then maybe a double or triple bounce via satellite, before it ever reaches the decoder in your living room. All these stages add a bit more delay.


And there is no way of getting rid of that delay?

Or intercepting the pictures before they get that delay?
 
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#16
tyshaunty said:
And there is no way of getting rid of that delay?

Or intercepting the pictures before they get that delay?
Q1 Yes - go and watch the event live :D

Q2 IF and its a big IF you can find a feed from your chosen event (or a fta transmission from abroad) then you can watch it with less of a lag. Apart from that no.
 
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tyshaunty

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#17
So how would I go about finding the feed?

Thanks again
 
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#18
Join the feedhunters yahoo group for starters. That carries the latest details of whats around and on which birds.. For serious feedhunting you will need a 1.2m minimum diameter motorised dish.

Go and have a look at www.dxmonitoring.com/satellite for some ideas.
 
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#19
There is a delay introduced to live broadcasts, to enable the transmission to be cut if something undisireable happens, quite apart from the delays from relaying via satellites.

This applies to any mainstream broadcast media, I really can't see why a few seconds delay should trouble you...

can you explain why it matters so much please?
 
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tyshaunty

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#20
I do a lot of in-running betting. A 1 second delay can make a big difference. Any more than that is just huge
 
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