How to buy Interoperable STB

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#1
Dear Friends,
I want to raise this question for the benefit of all DTH viewers in India.

We all know that both DishTV and TataSky are not following the guidelines laid out by TRAI regarding the Interoperable open architecture Set Top Boxes. Both have their STB's tied to their own viewing cards.

Can anybody has info on how to buy an STB that can be used for any DTH provider.

Also, I would like to invite all of you for a discussion on how to make these companies follow the law and become interoperable. Imagine, how nice it would be to buy an STB of your choice and buy the signals from your choice of DTH provider.

P.S. : If you are thinking of a united approach towards fighting the errants, please express your voice.

Best Regards

Harish
 

URPradhan

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#2
hcdin said:
Dear Friends,
I want to raise this question for the benefit of all DTH viewers in India.

We all know that both DishTV and TataSky are not following the guidelines laid out by TRAI regarding the Interoperable open architecture Set Top Boxes. Both have their STB's tied to their own viewing cards.

Can anybody has info on how to buy an STB that can be used for any DTH provider.

Also, I would like to invite all of you for a discussion on how to make these companies follow the law and become interoperable. Imagine, how nice it would be to buy an STB of your choice and buy the signals from your choice of DTH provider.

P.S. : If you are thinking of a united approach towards fighting the errants, please express your voice.

Best Regards

Harish
Dear .....
It happens only in India !!
Yes, we/all know that they are not following the TRAI guidelines. And we had a long diss here if you can remeber. Few members also wrtitten mails to TRAI. But they are sleeping U-zzzat Delhi.

And its not only here in DTH, every where, every one is kicking the LAW upto his/her level. In addition to that a govt body like consumer forum is also sleeping ... So the one liner can be .... Once to purchased an item, then its upto your fate for the gurrantee/service for that item. No one cares here. What we can do ?? Will you/we goto court and spend your/our hard earning money in fiting with the companies ??

And regarding ur STB, you can but any STB having a CI slot will do to receive pay channels. But till now DishTV or TataSky have not cameup with their separate VCs. So wait till TRAI will rise from his KUMBHKARNA sleep :-rofl2
 
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#3
Dear URPradhan

I am really happy to see your reply.
True, every concerning department is sleeping but we can not just wait for their wake up!!
I know one member - blue7 - even complained to TRAI and also CORE, and nothing happened. Well, I too complained to TRAI and as expected there is not even a reply from them.
What I want is all concerned people should unite and then -
file a query to the TRAI under RTI regarding "WHY THE AUTHORITY HAS NOT MOVED TDSAT AND WHAT ARE THE OTHER ACTIONS THEY HAVE TAKEN REGARDING THIS MATTER". This will compell the authority to do something.
The expenditure for query for RTI will be under Rs. 50/- which is not too much.
So, again I request all concerned people to get united first.
Thanks
 

URPradhan

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#4
Hi

Thank you for ur comment.

But I donot know the procedure for that (illetrate) :(
But I'm ready to join hand with you.
BTW, have you sent a mail to trai#del2.vsnl.net.in ?

We can also write to media like ....
1. CNBC Awaz
2. NDTV Profit
3. Aaj Tak
4. IndiaTV
5. Star News ........
 

bcdxer

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#5
yesterday, i got a reply from TRAI regarding my compalint against DISHTV regarding interoperability of their set top boxes.
Thet just forwarded copy of a letter sent to dishtv.
In their letter TRAI told dishtv to submit their comments on my complaint before 23-2-1974.
i will try to post jpeg image of TRAI letter tomorrow
 

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#6
bcdxer said:
yesterday, i got a reply from TRAI regarding my compalint against DISHTV regarding interoperability of their set top boxes.
Thet just forwarded copy of a letter sent to dishtv.
In their letter TRAI told dishtv to submit their comments on my complaint before 23-2-1974.
i will try to post jpeg image of TRAI letter tomorrow
Its good to here that. They had finally seen, Let us see , about your complain. Pls post it. Let us all know.
 

bcdxer

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#7
sorry friends
error in date
should be the year 2007
TRAI letter is attached
 

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bcdxer

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#8
Ref-102/trai/dated 27-11-2006


From
D.Prabakaran BE
3/355,Siraj nagar
Sirumughai road
Mettupalayam-641301
Coimbatore district
Tamilnadu
India
CDMA 04254325665


To
The Chairman,
Telecom Regulatory Authority of India,
A-2/ 14, Safdarjung Enclave,
New Delhi-110029.


Subject -- Sad plight of the many DISHTV DTH subscribers-Non BIS compatible poor quality STB's regarding

Sir/Madam,

I wish to bring to your notice the sad plight of the many DISHTV DTH subscribers as regards issues like interoperability, bad service and billing. TRAI has mandated that the satellite receivers (STBs) supplied to the DTH customers must provide for interoperability, which means an STB of DISHTV should be capable of receiving channels of TATASKY and other FTA channels, and vice versa. This is being blatantly violated by DishTV. They have tied their VC cards to their STB and thus not usable with any other STB.

Dishtv have recently updated STB firmware with forcefully.They disabled tuning and scaning features in their STBs, as a result, subscribers can't even catch FTA channels with their STBs.

I recently did a software upgrade and dumbed down the set top box. Now I cannot make any system changes and can't even see the signal strength. The channel surfing has also become a pain, instead of quickly shifting between screenful of channel menu, now I have to scroll through each and every channel to reach the desired channel.

I experienced following problems after recent firmware update
1. we cannot add new transponders
2. we cannot view other satellites having downlink approved tv channels
3. New software update does not support diseqc standard.
4. Channel navigation is pathetic and cumbersome
7. Many channels show pixilated video, sound motion mismatch
8. After software upgrade, Conditional access module slots are useless.
9. Stb is not compatible with BIS standards
The ablity to add/edit sat/TP is the basic requirement if interoperability is necessary. Without these how can you possible change DTH providers in other satellites?


DishTV Customercare

Dishtv customer service and support are atrocious. Their call center executives gives different types of answer each time when i call them for same problem. If I am lucky enough to be able to contact them- they never reply to E-mails of customers. Dish TV employees just don't do anything with customer requests. First of all it is with great difficulty that one is able to get connected to their customer care dept. and then the executives don't know what they are speaking about. Moreover they are rude and nothing happens to customer complaints/requests.

Dish TV could not deliver the products it has promised. News Active, Sports Active and enhanced inter active Menu seems to be not working until now for many users. The upgrade software seems to have some flaws and Dish TV is unable to implement this feature for all users, as they are not using unique decoders/STB. They are supplying substandard quality Korean STBs. STB and Remote are all (KAON or ZENEGA) substandard Korean products.

Being a customer of Dish TV, I have been very dissatisfied. They do not follow up to customers needs. They is not communication to the client except for the renewals. Further to add, Dish TV charges a penalty if you don't renew your subscription- which is unheard of. UNDOUBTEDLY MONEY MINDED AND WORST SERVICE PROVIDED. SIMPLY PATHETIC.

Dish TV system is so absurd that if one opts for a yearly payment scheme, he is not allowed to pick any other channel (outside the bouquet) for a term lesser than one year. This means that the customer does not have the option to pick and choose the channels he wants to watch and for the duration he wants to subscribe. DishTV is showing total disregard for existing laws, terms of license, and consumer interests.

For true interoperability to be a reality I think the following are very necessary conditions :-
1) 3rd Party STB Boxes must be allowed.
2) STBs must have multiple CI slots which are easy to access (not hidden).
3) Conditional Access Modules or CAMs must be made available by the DTH service providers.
4) SUbscription cards or Viewing cards (VC) must not be tied to the STBs.
5) TRAI must issue suitable guidelines for software updates.
6) All software updates must be made to adhere to the TRAI guidelines.
7) Subscriber must be informed before an Update by DTH provider, also informing him of changes and option should be with him to update or not.

The DTH providers must provide procedures as to how their STB can receive channels from other satellites. And these must be demonstrated to TRAI. these documented procedures should be available to buyers of STB's from DTH service providers

subscribers should not be forced to buy operator supplied STBs. The smart cards (VCs) should be sold seperately. Only this clause will ensure true interoperability ( allowing existing customers of dishtv to migrate to tatasky/ reliance when launched in march 2007 without having to buy a new STB for the respective providers.

I urge you to please take necessary action against Dishtv and help ALL the Dish DTH subscribers in India, for the sake of fairness, business ethics and the DTH industry in the long run.

I also request you issue suitable guidelines for STB software updates in DTH systems.

My Dishtv Subscription Details

Membership No. 286797
STB No. 20074501020C55063817


Yours sincerely,


D.Prabakaran


Copy to: -
Cabinet Secretary, Cabinet Secretariat.
Secretary, Department of Telecommunications.
Secretary, Department of Information Technology.
CEO, Prasar Bharati.
Secretary, TRAI.
M/s. ASC Enterprises LTd., J-27, South Extension Phase -I, New Delhi-29.
The Chairman, Telecom Regulatory Authority of India , A-2/ 14, Safdarjung Enclave, New Delhi-110029.
Consumer voice magazine
Various forums related to dishtv
Rajiv Khattar,Dishtv customercare via email
Subhash chandra,CEO-Zee group, via email
 

member91040

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#9
Woww Man good work, May let us hope for an good result. You should be underline this one. DTH customers must provide for interoperability.
 

geeky1

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#10
great work. But, Real interoperability will be possible if DTH providers are forced to SELL SMARCARDs/VCs alone with the other equipment being OPTIONAL.
 
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#11
Good Work !
Customers should have freedom to change opereater just by removing the old card and putting in the new Just like mobile phone
great work
Hope this will cause some stir in the DTH Market
 

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#12
bcdxer said:
sorry friends
error in date
should be the year 2007
TRAI letter is attached
Will They really take some action, or just say the words.
 
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#13
Hi Friends,
I was unable to connect to this thread for two days and today I can not be happier!
It seems more people are becoming aware of their rights.

What bcdxer has done is required by all of us. BIG THANKS to him. I urge all of you to go to the trai website, note down all required contacts (there you will find a list of consumer organizations registered with TRAI), send emails to them, if possible call on the numbers and ask about the matter. I am certain, we will definitely be heard.

Dear URPradhan, you are right, we can write to media also. Actually I have emailed to NDTV and TOI and waiting for their reply.
The best thing we can do is file a question to TRAI using the RTI Act stating -

* What has TRAI done so far to stop the blatant violation of the DTH Guidelines (Article 7.1 and 7.2) by the two DTH Service Providers, namely, DishTV and TataSky?
* According to the above guideline, what meassures a consumer can take to ensure he/she is not forced to remain tied with one provider?
* Why has distribution of channels not instructed on a "la carte" basis, as on CAS, on the DTH platform?

These questions will make TRAI unanswerable as they just can not reply something like "we didn't do anything" and they will be forced to take action.

Also, If anybody has any links to media, please use it to raise the question.

Thanks to all and Best Regards
Harish
 

bcdxer

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#14
TELECOM REGULATORY AUTHORITY OF INDIA
PRESS RELEASE NO. 25 /2007
2nd March 2007
TRAI releases Consultation Paper on the Issues Relating to Direct to Home (DTH)
service for television
The Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (TRAI) today released a
Consultation Paper on the issues relating to DTH. In this paper, various regulatory
issues arising out of the provision of the direct-to-home television service have
been discussed. At present, apart from Doordarshan which provides free to air
channels, there are two other DTH service providers for pay channels and two
more have obtained license to commence operation. As the direct-to-home
service increases in importance and spread, its role in providing competition to
the cable service and offering choice to the consumers would become
significant. At the same time there are issues regarding the quality of the service
to consumers as well as certain problems being faced by the direct-to-home
operators and the broadcasters.
2. The Consultation Paper has highlighted the issues into three categories as
below:-
(i) Interconnection issues.
(ii) Quality of service standards.
(iii) Regulatory issues for set top boxes.
3. There are a number of issues relating to tariffs, both at the wholesale and
at the retail level. The foremost issue is whether there is need for any regulation
of DTH tariffs since the DTH service is in fact providing some competition to cable
television. Competition provides an excellent method for ensuring the
consumer’s interests are protected. Accordingly regulation has a rationale when
the market does not function or the level of competition is inadequate. It has
been seen in the recent past that there has been some competition between
the two DTH service providers as well as between DTH and cable. Competitive
packages and offers have been made by all the service providers as against the
situation just one year back when the consumer had virtually no choice and
options. Considering all these developments, it has been decided that these
issues should be looked at after some time when the impact of the competition
in general, and impact of roll out of the CAS in cable TV in particular can be
assessed. Accordingly the tariff issues have not been posed for consultation at
present.
4. The major issues posed for consultation related to interconnection, quality
of service standards and regulatory issues regarding set top boxes. At present,
a. Interconnection issues:-
(i) Issues relating to standardization
of interconnection agreements
and use of the reference
interconnect offer methodology.
(ii) Issues relating to provision of
access to broadcasters, must
carry obligations and the related
issue of carriage fee.
b. Quality of service standards:-
(i) Whether quality of service
standards for DTH should be
mandated and the details of this
approach.
(ii) Whether the approach suggested
by TRAI for the telecom sector
where the TRAI mandates the
details of the grievance redressal
machinery – maintenance of call
centre, appointment of nodal
officers for grievance redressal
and establishment of appellate
body – can be followed in the
case of DTH also.
(iii) Whether quality of service
standards can be voluntarily
evolved by the service provider.
c. Interoperability of set top boxes :-
(i) The major issue is whether
technical interoperability should
be retained or whether it should
be replaced by commercial
interoperability.
(ii) If commercial interoperability is to
be introduced then the manner in
which this is to be done.
Interconnection for DTH is
already covered on issues
relating to “must provide”.
However, the reverse
obligations regarding “must
carry” as well as issues relating
to standardization of
agreements have not yet
been addressed and these
have been raised in the
consultation paper. On the
quality of service standards,
the basic issue is whether these
should be mandated and if so,
in what manner. Finally, the
regulatory issues regarding set
top boxes focus on the need
for commercial interoperability
and whether this should
replace the technical
interoperability. The major
issues posed for consultation
are indicated in the box
placed alongside.
The consultation paper is available on TRAI’s website (www.trai.gov.in). All
the stakeholders are requested to send their written comments by 20th March
2007, preferably by e-mail.
Contact Address in case of any clarification:
R.N. Choubey
Advisor (B&CS)
Telecom Regulatory Authority of India
Mahanagar Door Sanchar Bhawan,
Jawahar Lal Nehru Marg (Old Minto Road),
New Delhi – 110002.
Telephone: 011-23221509
Fax No: 011-23220442
E-mail: rnchoubey*rediffmail.com
Authorised for Issue
Advisor (B&CS)
 

URPradhan

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#15
....So what we can conclude from this aprat from waiting for their mail to TRAI till 20th March.
 

geeky1

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#16
' commercial' interoperability is only an EYE WASH.

Unless technical interoperability mandating the sale of smart card alone is implemented nothing much will change.

let us all contact our local consumer groups, VOICE etc., and let us present our case for TRUE interoperability jointly through these NGOs

h++p://www.consumer-voice.org/
h++p://www.corecentre.org/
h++p://cag.org.in/
 

URPradhan

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#17
geeky1 said:
' commercial' interoperability is only an EYE WASH.

Unless technical interoperability mandating the sale of smart card alone is implemented nothing much will change.

let us all contact our local consumer groups, VOICE etc., and let us present our case for TRUE interoperability jointly through these NGOs

h++p://www.consumer-voice.org/
h++p://www.corecentre.org/
h++p://cag.org.in/
Its was un believable, when I read the news about the impact of RTI at Kolapur, Maharastra. Recenly a tee stall owener got justice due to RTI.

So, friends we can take the benefit of RTI and query to TRAI what they have taken the action against the DTH operators for violating interoperability ?

what you say ?
 
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#18
why don't some one (who has all the tech knowledge about this) be citizen journalist in cnn ibn
and report the story ...either by photo graphs or videos .
and send that cnn ibn .
 
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#19
Dear Friends.
It will happen when all and not one of us do the required, i.e., write letters / emails to trai / consumer groups and also file query under RTI. To file qquery under RTI, just write on a simple plain paper, addressing to The PIO, TRAI followed by the postal address, affix a court fee stamp worth Rs. 20/- and go to the head post office of your area and get receipt for it. I f you still have problem pls consult ndtv.com, there you will find all how's and when's regarding the use of RTI.

Best Regards
Harish
 

geeky1

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#20
dinakar407 said:
why don't some one (who has all the tech knowledge about this) be citizen journalist in cnn ibn
and report the story ...either by photo graphs or videos .
and send that cnn ibn .
cnn-ibn will not care about dishtv coz they have an allience with zee group
 
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