Inverto Black Ultra or Inverto Premium twin LNB

Pepeyeb

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Hello everybody.

I would like to know your opinion regarding these 2 LNBs.
Usually most say that Black Ultra is better. Although the technical characteristics of the two are similar.
What is your experience?

Thanks.
Happy weekend
 

ozumo

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I've tried various universal Inverto LNBs and the Black Ultra has always been the best. There's a new PLL Black Ultra coming out soon which may be worth waiting for.
 

Pepeyeb

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I've tried various universal Inverto LNBs and the Black Ultra has always been the best. There's a new PLL Black Ultra coming out soon which may be worth waiting for.
okay
We will wait
Thanks
 

Offtensive

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I've tried various universal Inverto LNBs and the Black Ultra has always been the best. There's a new PLL Black Ultra coming out soon which may be worth waiting for.
Is this the new lnb you're referring too, or is there a new version coming out?



Thanks
 

ozumo

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Is this the new lnb you're referring too, or is there a new version coming out?



Thanks
No this is the new quad version of the Black Ultra LNB I was referring to:

Still haven't found anywhere selling it yet.
 

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These chaps have it listed, but unfortunately not available yet

 

Channel Hopper

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Lots of spurious descriptions within those promotions.

I wonder if they work much beyond the guarantee period ?
 

s-band

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The claims of 0.2dB NF drive me nuts. The GaAsFETs can only do 0.4dB, at room temperature, and that's without circuit losses. You'll be lucky to get 0.6dB even with super tweaking at Ku. If it's true, why pay £10k+ for a cryo LNA when you can get better noise temperature from a domestic LNB? Compact Cryogenic LNA

Ignore the BS but in some respects these LNBs may be worth trying. e.g. 22dB X pol rejection, low phase noise etc. However, >22dB X pol rejection on a real domestic dish? That's going to make more difference than scratching around for a tiny bit lower NF especially on something like 0.8W.

Here are some measurements from a few years ago: Just Sharing This - Invacom 0.3dB vs. Octagon PLL vs. SMW PLL Ku LNBs
 

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The claims of 0.2dB NF drive me nuts. The GaAsFETs can only do 0.4dB, at room temperature, and that's without circuit losses. You'll be lucky to get 0.6dB even with super tweaking at Ku. If it's true, why pay £10k+ for a cryo LNA when you can get better noise temperature from a domestic LNB? Compact Cryogenic LNA

Ignore the BS but in some respects these LNBs may be worth trying. e.g. 22dB X pol rejection, low phase noise etc. However, >22dB X pol rejection on a real domestic dish? That's going to make more difference than scratching around for a tiny bit lower NF especially on something like 0.8W.

Here are some measurements from a few years ago: Just Sharing This - Invacom 0.3dB vs. Octagon PLL vs. SMW PLL Ku LNBs
Im happy with my new Inverto Twin Universal Premium IDLP-TWL410-PREMU-OPN that arrived Friday. Quest seems more stable and, not that I will watch it, I can now get GBNews. It replaced the Golden Media 202+ that was the flavour of the month on the forum a while ago.
 

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These inverto lnbs go a bit over my head. Is this the one the ‘feed hunters’ have been using?


Or is it this one?

 

ozumo

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Some get better results with the Black Ultra, others find the Premium PLL to be superior. If you have mobile phone masts near I'd go for the Premium PLL as it has a 4G filter which the original Black Ultras don't have.
 

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Some get better results with the Black Ultra, others find the Premium PLL to be superior. If you have mobile phone masts near I'd go for the Premium PLL as it has a 4G filter which the original Black Ultras don't have.

Do you know if there are any downside to the PLL filter? I bought the Premium PLL last year which performed well. I upgraded that to the Golden Media 204, which did perform better; but it went belly up after a few weeks. Yesterday I put on an old Black Ultra and there was a significant improvement in signal quality. (I never expected much from this Black Ultra as it was fairly old and not in the best of condition).

I am tempted to get one of the new 2022 Black Ultras, but I noticed they have PLL filters in them too.

On a side note, does anyone know how I can search for PLL. I have tried ",',*,+ but I always get the message of it being too short or no results found.
 
Last edited:

ozumo

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PLL (vs DRO) is the local oscillator, do you mean the 4G filter? I've not seen anything to suggest they significantly negatively affect signal, however I've not yet found a 40mm universal LNB with 4G filter that out performs an original DRO Black Ultra. I'd say the same about PLL universal LNBs vs the original IBU but I've not yet tried the new PLL version.

For searching it might be better to use google, for example
Code:
site:satellites.co.uk "PLL"
 

william-1

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Received the new PLL version last week slightly better than IBU,
I like the new stealth design :cool:

Here are my signal readings:-

TM6902 HD signal test 50E to 30W + 100cm Gibby
Inverto Black Ultra comparison chart,
This update 23rd May 2022==New PLL Single v Old PLL wide feed horn
==================IBU===================PLL-2=PLL-1
50E 10959 H 2222 77% Turksat Tanitim===75%=====79%
== 11196 V 2222 77% Turksat Tanitim===76%=====75%
46E 11025 V 12700 70% ARB 24==========69%=====66%
== 11095 H 30000 69% 1tv georgia=======70%=====71%
45E 11555 V 30000 84% City TV===========84%=====85%
42E 11053 H 8000 75% Show Turk=========80%=====84%
== 11054 V 30000 83% TRT World HD======84%=====83%
39E 12241 H 13381 63% BBC World=========73%=====73%
== 10730 H 30000 83% ERT World=========85%=====85%
36E 11212 H 14400 71% 1 Arkhi===========72%=====71%
== 11501 V 5786 60% CNC World HD======61%=====65%
31E 10992 V 2222 74% Turksat Tanitim======72%=====75%
28E 12070 H 27500 83% Sky News==========84%=====84%
== 11023 H 23000 90% BBC News==========89%=====89%
26E 11996 H 27500 73% Euronews==========72%=====70%
== 12073 H 27500 65% BBC World News====64%=====63%
23E 12012 V 29900 88% Rebel ============88%=====no signal
== 12168 V 27500 86% Ocko TV===========86%=====no signal
21E 11585 v 2500 77% Riyadh MCR========78%
== 11475 V 1480 50% Aden TV===========53%
19E 12603 H 22000 75% Sky News==========73%
== 11229 V 22000 87% BBC World News HD===84%
16E 11262 H 30000 73% Al Jazeera Balkans76%====76%
== 11512 V 29950 84% TVR Int===========84%
13E 11566 H 29900 77% Euronews HD=======77%======77%
== 11373 H 27500 83% NASA TV HD========84%
10E 11346 H 27500 82% AFP1 EU===========80%======81%
== 11547 V 1441 78% M24 Maroc=========73%
9E 11900 H 27500 82% EBS HD============83%
== 12034 V 27500 85% W9 Swiss==========84%
7E 10887 V 30000 85% TRT World=========83%
== 10928 V 30000 82% CGTN HD==========83%
5E 12245 V 30000 82% Ukraine 24========80%
== 12303 H 25545 84% Belsat TV=========84%
3E 12600 H 18843 74% Alpha HD==========72%
== 11654 H 4444 81% 2M Monde==========80%
2E 12455 H 30000 86% RTP Int===========88%
== 12360 V 30000 79% TRT World=========77%
1W 11900 H 28000 81% Music Channel=====82%======84%
== 12418 V 28000 83% Sky News==========81%
3W 12739 V 13172 72% Capri Fashion=====56%
4W 12354 H 3333 52% Romania TV========58%
== 12341 H 17900 71% 1 Zahid HD========75%
5W 11554 V 29950 88% Fransat Info======88%
== 11096 V 29950 87% Viavosges=========87%
7W 11526 H 27500 55% Abu Dhabi Sports==57%
== 11277 V 27500 59% MBC-2=============60%
8W 12604 H 27500 59% beIN Sport NewsHD 61%
== 11054 H 27500 59% beIN Sports HD====60%
14W 10973 H 2962 83% Al Manar==========81%
== 11108 H 4390 64% Rossia 24=========64%
15W 12608 H 7550 69% ESPN-1=============73%======77%
22W 11125 H 17248 71% Reuters TV News===72%======73%
22W 12673 H 20738 64% Canal Algeria=====67%
27W 11495 V 44095 83% BBC One HD=======83%
30W 10769 H 30000 84% TSA Record News===82%
== 12130 H 27500 87% TV Record=========87%

NEW 2022 Inverto Black Ultra 0.2dB PLL Single Output
IDLT-SNL412-ULTRA-OPN

The current Inverto Black Ultra has been on my dish for 5 years,

I have found the New PLL version signals very stable & will leave it on the 100cm Gibby.
 

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william-1

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The original Inverto PLL with the extra large feed horn looked impressive but was let down with overload on some strong transponders,

The New Inverto PLL is a lot more stable on all transponders.

Not all transponders were tested with PLL-1 version as there are some problems with this design.
 

ymttt

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William-1, great effort but which is the new pll and old pll? I know of the old ultra which not pll and the new pll. Please throw more light so I can follow the test as it appears useful. Trying to buy my first pll lnb.
Received the new PLL version last week slightly better than IBU,
I like the new stealth design :cool:

Here are my signal readings:-

TM6902 HD signal test 50E to 30W + 100cm Gibby
Inverto Black Ultra comparison chart,
This update 23rd May 2022==New PLL Single v Old PLL wide feed horn
==================IBU===================PLL-2=PLL-1
50E 10959 H 2222 77% Turksat Tanitim===75%=====79%
== 11196 V 2222 77% Turksat Tanitim===76%=====75%
46E 11025 V 12700 70% ARB 24==========69%=====66%
== 11095 H 30000 69% 1tv georgia=======70%=====71%
45E 11555 V 30000 84% City TV===========84%=====85%
42E 11053 H 8000 75% Show Turk=========80%=====84%
== 11054 V 30000 83% TRT World HD======84%=====83%
39E 12241 H 13381 63% BBC World=========73%=====73%
== 10730 H 30000 83% ERT World=========85%=====85%
36E 11212 H 14400 71% 1 Arkhi===========72%=====71%
== 11501 V 5786 60% CNC World HD======61%=====65%
31E 10992 V 2222 74% Turksat Tanitim======72%=====75%
28E 12070 H 27500 83% Sky News==========84%=====84%
== 11023 H 23000 90% BBC News==========89%=====89%
26E 11996 H 27500 73% Euronews==========72%=====70%
== 12073 H 27500 65% BBC World News====64%=====63%
23E 12012 V 29900 88% Rebel ============88%=====no signal
== 12168 V 27500 86% Ocko TV===========86%=====no signal
21E 11585 v 2500 77% Riyadh MCR========78%
== 11475 V 1480 50% Aden TV===========53%
19E 12603 H 22000 75% Sky News==========73%
== 11229 V 22000 87% BBC World News HD===84%
16E 11262 H 30000 73% Al Jazeera Balkans76%====76%
== 11512 V 29950 84% TVR Int===========84%
13E 11566 H 29900 77% Euronews HD=======77%======77%
== 11373 H 27500 83% NASA TV HD========84%
10E 11346 H 27500 82% AFP1 EU===========80%======81%
== 11547 V 1441 78% M24 Maroc=========73%
9E 11900 H 27500 82% EBS HD============83%
== 12034 V 27500 85% W9 Swiss==========84%
7E 10887 V 30000 85% TRT World=========83%
== 10928 V 30000 82% CGTN HD==========83%
5E 12245 V 30000 82% Ukraine 24========80%
== 12303 H 25545 84% Belsat TV=========84%
3E 12600 H 18843 74% Alpha HD==========72%
== 11654 H 4444 81% 2M Monde==========80%
2E 12455 H 30000 86% RTP Int===========88%
== 12360 V 30000 79% TRT World=========77%
1W 11900 H 28000 81% Music Channel=====82%======84%
== 12418 V 28000 83% Sky News==========81%
3W 12739 V 13172 72% Capri Fashion=====56%
4W 12354 H 3333 52% Romania TV========58%
== 12341 H 17900 71% 1 Zahid HD========75%
5W 11554 V 29950 88% Fransat Info======88%
== 11096 V 29950 87% Viavosges=========87%
7W 11526 H 27500 55% Abu Dhabi Sports==57%
== 11277 V 27500 59% MBC-2=============60%
8W 12604 H 27500 59% beIN Sport NewsHD 61%
== 11054 H 27500 59% beIN Sports HD====60%
14W 10973 H 2962 83% Al Manar==========81%
== 11108 H 4390 64% Rossia 24=========64%
15W 12608 H 7550 69% ESPN-1=============73%======77%
22W 11125 H 17248 71% Reuters TV News===72%======73%
22W 12673 H 20738 64% Canal Algeria=====67%
27W 11495 V 44095 83% BBC One HD=======83%
30W 10769 H 30000 84% TSA Record News===82%
== 12130 H 27500 87% TV Record=========87%

NEW 2022 Inverto Black Ultra 0.2dB PLL Single Output
IDLT-SNL412-ULTRA-OPN

The current Inverto Black Ultra has been on my dish for 5 years,

I have found the New PLL version signals very stable & will leave it on the 100cm Gibby.
 

william-1

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Superior Dark Motor (160° max)
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Stab100 H to H (120° max)
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PLL Lnb's tested, = PLL-1 top PLL-2 bottom
s-l1600 = PLL 1.png
 

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    s-l500 PLL 2.png
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Last edited:

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PLL Lnb's tested, = PLL-1 top PLL-2 bottom
View attachment 147536
The PLL 2 looks like the same feedhorn cap as my Inverto Quattro PLL which is very good at letting in moisture..Inverto were in denial when I told them and sent some pictures..20221122_113150.jpg20221122_113157.jpg
 
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