ITV2 - What's the story ?

Burnham Beech

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#1
There are 3 itv2 channels on Astra2 12652h 22000 5/6. One is scrambled, the other two are fta test channels (fta only for now presumably).

The two test channels showed a CL game today in "squeezed" widescreen. At other times they show the standard itv2 picture in normal(ish) 4/3 format.

The two fta channels can't be scanned in on my Nokia 9600 but I can get them by entering the pids. Does anyone know if they can be scanned in - the Nokia normally has a repution for being flexible.

Does anyone know anything more about these two unusual channels.
 

leonardwolk

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#2
Well, ITV2 FTA, I got to move my dish to Astra2D this evening then. Useless post, but I felt happy, when I read the thread. And at what time is the David Letterman show at ITV2, or is it not on ITV2?

I couldn't find any listings of ITV2:s programmes.
 

Burnham Beech

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#4
Thanks for your posts and interest leonardwolk.

This is really bugging me, not because I want to get ITV2 on 28e, but because I dont understand what's going on. Yes, there are 2 fta itv2 channels on 10906v - satcodx is accurate. I don't know how long they've been there as I only scanned them in yesterday.

I've done more investigation today and tried to scan them in an echostar ad3000ipva - wouldn't work. I then tried to put the pids in manually - still wouldn't work, perhaps I don't know how to do this on the echostar.

My interest in ITV2 is that it broadcasts Champions League Football.
 

2old4this

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#5
Lyngsat is reporting two FTA ITV2 channels too.
See http://www.lyngsat.com/dig/skyuk.shtml
(reported there on 10/oct/02)

One has VPID 2225, APID 2326
The other has VPID 2329, APID 2330

If they don't work, then I would suggest a PID scan to determine the actual current PIDs in use (possible in DVB2000 on your Nokia - assuming you have DVB2000 on it). Perhaps the PIDs are changing regularly.

If the PIDs aren't transmitted in the bit stream, then a simple scan will indeed not bring them in.

2old
 

leonardwolk

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#6
Originally posted by 2old4this

If the PIDs aren't transmitted in the bit stream, then a simple scan will indeed not bring them in.
This must be the case, because I couldn't scan for them either, are they excluding the pids from the bitstream to hide it?
 

Burnham Beech

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#7
Thank you very much leonardwolk & 2old4this for your replies and help.

I am using DVB2000 on my Nokia 9600 (with NDT1006A tuner). Can you give me more information on the PID scan you mention.

If I go into the PIDs menu and set AUTOpid on the VPID 2325, APID 2326 change immediately to VPID 2321, APID 2322. I can only get these channels with the AUTOpid set off. I assume this is what you mean by a PID scan, but I would be grateful if you would confirm this.

Let us assume that the PIDs aren't transmitted in the bit stream (as you say). I am now really curious - how do people find these channels originally ? As you say, they have been reported on Lyngsat, Satcodz and on LJ's football page.

Really grateful for any reply & advice.
 

2old4this

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#8
Yes, it's the autoPID feature that I was referring to.
There are some nuances to be aware of though. Quoting the DVB2000 manual:
"The automatic PID search works reliably with NDT1006A receivers only (not DFST1173). You only enter video or audio PID=0. Then press 7 ON and OFF again. PID values are automatically searched for. To save the new values press 8-3 here."

This is how people find the PIDs of channels when the PIDs are not transmitted in the bitstream. Such channels are intended for a specific target audience (eg a broadcaster testing, or a cable-company re-distributing the signal. Those audiences know the PIDs in advance (they are told) so their receivers don't need to scan for them.

Tara TV and Denmark4 (er, I think) used this trick too. You always had to enter the PIDs manually for them - a scan did not pull them in.

2old
 

Burnham Beech

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#9
I've read & re-read the relevant parts of the DVB2000 manual in the past few days trying to understand this. I have a NDT1006A receiver but can't make any sense on the section you quoted below. Even on a standard all FTA transponder (say on 19º east) it does not seem to be of any use. (By the way my manual also says press 7 on & off - but I think they mean AutoPID which is 9 or A depending on DVB version)

Let's say there are 8 channels on a transponder and you start the automatic PID search following the instructions printed in the manual. What it will do is find only the video & audio pids for the channel currently set - it does not find the v/a pids for the other 7 channels. By experimentation I have found that it only searches the particular SID already set. If I change the SID to zero nothing is found. If I change the SID to a valid number, it will find the v/a pids relevant to the SID - that doesn't seem to be of much use since if I'm searching for something, I don't know the SID.

If anyone has DVB2000 and can make more sense of this than me I would appreciate any help they can provide.

You say the trick of hiding PIDs has been used before, but this is the first time I've encountered it. Whenever I've been told of a new channel, I put in the Freq, Pol, SR & FEC in the Tuner menu, do a search and I've always found the channel.

I found another reference to automatic PID search in the DVB2000 manual in Expert Menu/Layer Demux. At first glance it appears to be the solution. Set the search going and it goes through all the vPIDs one by one taking about 30 minutes to cycle through all the possible values. But this just doesn't work on my receiver, it simply goes past valid PIDs without stopping. Maybe there is something else to set to activate this PID seacrh properly.
 
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