Ka B/C overlap (Hughes) Thread

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Staff member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,661
Points
113
Age
63
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
Figured we needed to tidy up a bit by having a thread dedicated to Hughes LNB OMT and or Polariser ..
Mainly because this Lnb hasn't been fully explored yet and is quite capable of straddling bands B and C Ka
C being the military and or scientific part of the Ka spectrum..
Llew has already done much work and testing of this lnb ..but we may find out more in the future..
ie Llew has already tested its 27mhz H/V switching capabilities..
Nice one buddy..
and I have borrowed vatious bitz for other projects and test including using the depolariser on a modified Inverto Saorsat lnb.
I still think we have not tested this lnbs capability to the max ..
Just how high in frequency can it go for example..
Described as for use at 19700 to 20200..but will easily go to 20400..
Im attaching a scan taken this morning at 37.8°E, Athena-Fidus..
Clearly showing it in use as intended for both civilian and military use ..
The smaller lower hump in the trace being civilian ...and the higher frequency much bigger hump (non dvbs) at approx. 20355 being military coms.
rgds
VS
 

Attachments

  • DSCF0190.JPG
    DSCF0190.JPG
    315.4 KB · Views: 202
  • Hughes at 38E.jpg
    Hughes at 38E.jpg
    179.5 KB · Views: 176

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Staff member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,661
Points
113
Age
63
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
Just before I go open the shop ..
I thought you might like to see the somewhat complex constellation gathered from 20355
later
VS
 

Attachments

  • 20355 constellation.jpg
    20355 constellation.jpg
    301.8 KB · Views: 146

Captain Jack

Модератор
Staff member
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
11,216
Reaction score
7,464
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
See signature
My Location
North Somerset
That's a heck of a modulation!
 

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
15,516
Reaction score
3,771
Points
113
Age
78
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
Figured we needed to tidy up a bit by having a thread dedicated to Hughes LNB OMT and or Polariser VS

Good idea VS. Bit of a mystery this LNB. I've had a look at the layout of the circuit inside, and it seems to be a later version of the one I've seen on the UHF Satcomms site. That one is apparently easy to change the DRO frequency, as that has an adjusting screw.

With this LNB version, after removing the inner cover, I see the local oscillator is completely enclosed, a can being soldered over the LO circuitry, with no means of adjusting the LO. If it used a DRO, and after the manufacturer's final testing and adjusting, I would imagine adding the can could alter the LO frequency!

This gives me the suspicion that it is a PLL LO device, as this wouldn't need any final frequency adjustment. The only adjustments available seem to be over the H/V input probes (see pics). There's no obvious input bandpass filters, so what those screws do I've no idea ATM.

All grist to the mill VS. Work in progress...
 

Attachments

  • Inside Hughes LNB.jpg
    Inside Hughes LNB.jpg
    202.3 KB · Views: 200
  • Hughes LNB inner cover removed.jpg
    Hughes LNB inner cover removed.jpg
    220.7 KB · Views: 210

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Staff member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,661
Points
113
Age
63
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
Nicely done Llew ..
I was considering opening mine up ..but you beat me to it ..
I _may_ still do this just to see if it has an adjustable DRO ..at some point
and at some point will also build a 27mhz switch.
Nice pics mate.
;)
rgds
VS
 

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Staff member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,661
Points
113
Age
63
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
So ..I guess the Hughes is good to go all the way from 19700 to 20900 at the very least..
2 more peaks found and locked at 12W (WGS3)
;)

I rotated the lnb and OMT through 90 degrees ..the polariser and feed remained unchanged..
This would have given the opposite circular polarisation but IF these peaks were Linear ..then they would theoretically pass straight through but unaffected by the depolariser ..and vanish not being able to enter the the relevant OMT port..
They all 3 did vanish ..
Not a foolproof test by any means but _suggest_ linear to me..
rgds
VS
 

Attachments

  • Hughes 19700 20900 scan 12W.jpg
    Hughes 19700 20900 scan 12W.jpg
    199.5 KB · Views: 116

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Staff member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,661
Points
113
Age
63
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
Ok ..since I cannot find easily the Xtal osc module you used Llew ..
Opted and ordered 1 of these .. hopefully will do the job ok ..but will need to use a 3.3v regulator..
Si501
OSC, 27MHZ, ±20PPM, 1.8-3.3V, SMD Part # SILICON LABORATORIES 501HCA27M0000BAF

 

Attachments

  • Si501-2-3.pdf
    438.5 KB · Views: 70

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
15,516
Reaction score
3,771
Points
113
Age
78
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
So ..I guess the Hughes is good to go all the way from 19700 to 20900 at the very least..
2 more peaks found and locked at 12W (WGS3)
;)

I rotated the lnb and OMT through 90 degrees ..the polariser and feed remained unchanged..
This would have given the opposite circular polarisation but IF these peaks were Linear ..then they would theoretically pass straight through but unaffected by the depolariser ..and vanish not being able to enter the the relevant OMT port..
They all 3 did vanish ..
Not a foolproof test by any means but _suggest_ linear to me..
rgds
VS
Yes, that seems likely VS.

I don't lock 20730 with the Hughes, but OK on 20780. I'll send up a 27MHz port switcher to see what effect it has - if I can remember what port it switches to :unsure
 

Attachments

  • 12W 20800 Hughes LNB.jpg
    12W 20800 Hughes LNB.jpg
    258.2 KB · Views: 110

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
15,516
Reaction score
3,771
Points
113
Age
78
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
Ok ..since I cannot find easily the Xtal osc module you used Llew ..
Opted and ordered 1 of these .. hopefully will do the job ok ..but will need to use a 3.3v regulator..
Si501
OSC, 27MHZ, ±20PPM, 1.8-3.3V, SMD Part # SILICON LABORATORIES 501HCA27M0000BAF
Looks to be pretty much the same as mine VS, just lower voltage working.
 

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Staff member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,661
Points
113
Age
63
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
Ok ..these 2 are interesting ..
2 peaks both in the military band and appear to originate from 19.2 East ..
Is there are military sat in the same quadrant or does Astra carry transponders above 20200 ?
Cannot resolve them into anything useful ..but the constellations are curious..
rgds
VS
 

Attachments

  • Astra 19.2 East approx.jpg
    Astra 19.2 East approx.jpg
    561.3 KB · Views: 110

hvdh

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
2,226
Reaction score
3,114
Points
113
Age
57
Website
gso-satellites.nl
My Satellite Setup
Dr.HD F16, TBS 5927, T-55, Laminas 120 cm
My Location
Oss, NL (5.5°E 51.8°N)
Yes, since a few months there is a milsat at 19.2°E: infrared early warning satellite SBIRS-Geo 2.
Inclined with 5.1°, passed the belt at 00:30 UTC, does that match the time you caught the signals?

If there is always a signal, could be Arabsat-5C at 20.0°E, but that should have footprints over ME only.

Edit: I see your clock in the screenshot!
At 01:14, assuming that is 00:14 UTC, that is close enough (just 0.4° off).
 
Last edited:

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Staff member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,661
Points
113
Age
63
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
Yes, since a few months there is a milsat at 19.2°E: infrared early warning satellite SBIRS-Geo 2.
Inclined with 5.1°, passed the belt at 00:30 UTC, does that match the time you caught the signals?

If there is always a signal, could be Arabsat-5C at 20.0°E, but that should have footprints over ME only.

Edit: I see your clock in the screenshot!
At 01:14, assuming that is 00:14 UTC, that is close enough (just 0.4° off).
Good morning HVDH ..
yes indeed ..the captures before editing to include both constellations would be about 1:00 AM GMT (UK time with daylight saving).

Having left the dish unmoved from last night I just scanned again at 8:00 AM GMT ..and no sign of these two peaks so yes ..a likely encounter with SBIRS ?
rgds
VS
 

Captain Jack

Модератор
Staff member
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
11,216
Reaction score
7,464
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
See signature
My Location
North Somerset
Maybe it's aliens trying to communicate?
 

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Staff member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,661
Points
113
Age
63
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK

hvdh

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
2,226
Reaction score
3,114
Points
113
Age
57
Website
gso-satellites.nl
My Satellite Setup
Dr.HD F16, TBS 5927, T-55, Laminas 120 cm
My Location
Oss, NL (5.5°E 51.8°N)
1:00 AM GMT (UK time with daylight saving).
o_O Confusing! "GMT" is not "UK time with daylight saving".
GMT (or UTC) time does not adapt to daylight saving.
But it's understood, the clock in your house showed 01:00, that is 00:00 UTC (or GMT as the British keep saying)!

The estimated passing time was based on a TLE of 1 July.
During the summer months, only few visual observations, and therefore updates, are made on these military TLE's.

Will you try SBIRS again in the early afternoon?
 

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Staff member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,661
Points
113
Age
63
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
I have to be at work at 1:00 PM
But will test again in the 30 minutes leading up to this ..
12:30 onwards ..
rgds
VS
 

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Staff member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,661
Points
113
Age
63
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
For extra confirmation ..
Perhaps Llew would also monitor 19.2 E .
Assuming his Hughes is still mounted up ?
rgds
VS
 

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Staff member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,661
Points
113
Age
63
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
I guess this is confirmation enough Hans..
First sign of the larger peak 20253 at 11:45 local time..
The Wagon Wheel constellation as I have named it ..
No sign of the Cube yet ...
will watch the build up as long as possible
rgds
VS
 

Attachments

  • first sign.jpg
    first sign.jpg
    143.7 KB · Views: 74
Last edited:

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Staff member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,661
Points
113
Age
63
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
First sighting of the Cube constellation 20462 at 12:02 ..tiny spike as yet but getting there.
rgds
VS

20253 looking a bit different today during the build up ..
Possibly Doppler shift playing a part as the sat oscillates above and below the belt ?
 

Attachments

  • 20252.jpg
    20252.jpg
    147.5 KB · Views: 62

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
15,516
Reaction score
3,771
Points
113
Age
78
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
Good finds VS. Thanks for the info hvdh. My PC's been playing up this morning, but got it booting up OK just in time to see the satellite passing through. Seemed to be peaking around 13:00. These scans taken around 12.45.
 

Attachments

  • Around 19E_1.jpg
    Around 19E_1.jpg
    167.4 KB · Views: 79
  • Around 19E_2.jpg
    Around 19E_2.jpg
    182 KB · Views: 78
Top