MOTORIZED DISH FROM SCRATCH - BONE QUESTIONS I'M SURE BUT....

[BigAitch]

I have scanned the forum, but haven't found answers, so here goes.

I’m a complete newby to Sat TV, but am usually capable with things technology, once I get through the sector-specific jargon. However, I’m struggling a bit with the setup of my dish/system.

Any guidance will be much appreciated, and thanks for reading!
Details are:

Latitude: 52.2467°
Longitude: -2.7058° (West)
Dish 80x90cm (ovalish - steel I think Unbranded)
Motor – Technomate TM-2600 M3 DiSEqC
LNB – 2 port ‘Universal’ from Maplin
Receiver – Technomate TM-5402 HD M3 C1
Cables (all good quality, almost new with great end fittings)
Cheap and cheerful Satfinder (a £fiver from Amazon)

The dish is on a portable stand and yes, I have the vertical pole VERTICAL. I checked the position of the best sat (in the sky, relative to where I was, I think it was IntelSat) and literally pointed the dish to an imagined dot above the southernish horizon just to check the system fired up. Imagine my surprise, when I booted the receiver, I got high quality UK TV (channels pretty similar to all the Freeview ones). This receiver was not setup in this area (NOWHERE NEAR) and the Lat/Long were literally miles out, so attempts to motor the dish to anything other than my 1st pot-luck satellite failed.

I now want to site the dish more permanently and have the following questions:

1. Both the dish and the motor have adjustable inclination. I’m guessing the one on the dish is made for a non-motorised setup and should be set to 0°/90° (vertical) and the scale on the motor used for my latitude (eg 30.2° for 0.8W IntelSat). Is that correct?
2. If I set the motorised dish to due south (offset for magnetic deviation), the inclination to the recommended angle and set my Lat/Long in the receiver settings, can the receiver not do a blind scan of the horizon to locate the satellites? I know the sat locations are all available in the receiver, so surely it would make sense to have a bit if internal logic to scan about to find a transponder of a known sat, then use that as datum??
3. If that isn’t possible, how do I tell the receiver to set the motor to the 0°/0° position, so I can align the dish with due south/correct inclination?
4. Is there a guide for everything in the Technomate Receiver menu! The quick setup guide is pants and there are loads of menu options such as Blind Scan and other reference terms, units of measure and axis title that are meaningless (to a newby).
5. If I get the receiver to point to a specific satellite (say 0.8W Inelsat) and the menu is expecting that, then point the dish and adjust it with a satfinder to get a great signal, does the box know if I home-in on the wrong satellite? That might sound dumb, but I see the satellite name on the TV once selected, whether or not the dish is connected, so that reading is coming from the menu, not the satellite….
6. Does the receiver understand/confirm which satellite is talking to it, even if I have selected the wrong one on the menu/in the sky?? There really are a lot of them up there, they are only a tiny angle away from each other and even micro adjustments mean miles of error up over the horizon!

Thanks again.

 

[Channel Hopper]

If you have a meter (even if it is cheap/cheerful) you will be able to fix the errors once you have moved to a permanent spot.

Best thing is to unplug the receiver when you are looking at a particular strong channel of the Freesat position, that way the dish and receiver will power up once reconnected without moving. The markings under the motor will confirm you are pointing to 28East , if not then you have to start thinking about more major adjustments once you have moved the system to the new resting place.
Have the meter connected inline outside and swing the dish around until you get the same type of signal strength, go inside than check you have the same channel just to be certain and then fine tune the bolts outside.

The Technomate motor is a clone of a very good make from the far East and should provide full arc capability if you do the fine adjustments, but this is dependent on a more or less perfect vertical post and good north/south alignment. The rest is done with the 13mm bolts in front of the motor

 

[Mickha]

The receiver wont know if you're actually pointed at 0.8W, it will just scan in transponders, then you can check the channels, and frequencies, on sites like lyngsat, or kingofsat.
Both dish, and motor, brackets are useful, for aiding in tracking the satellite arc, correctly.

When initially starting set everything to 0, then use your receiver, after entering the latitude, and longitude, to send the motor, and dish, to 0.8W, so it should move East slightly, as your True South is 2.7W.
You then manually adjust the dish/motor until you get the strongest possible signal from 0.8W.
Once done you send it East, and West, to your furthest satellites, possibly 39E and 30W, noting down your signal quality readings.
If you aren't fully tracking the satellite arc, which is very unlikely the first time, you send the dish back to 0.8W and adjust the bracket angles, slightly, maximise the signal quality, again, then send East/West to see if your signal quality readings improve.
You keep doing this until you're satisfied you have the dish tracking the satellite arc.
It's less complicated than it sounds, as you will quickly discover.

 

[BigAitch]

Cheers Mickha, much appreciate you taking time to help! I'm sure as you say, it will become easier, once I have grasped the basics but.....

I'm not sure how I can read or 'check the channel frequencies' or what to do if I find the receiver is reporting one satellite (which I selected on the receiver), but is actually receiving and hence showing frequencies of another that it is actually pointing to (or am I being even thicker now?)...

I guess if I can read what the frequencies are on screen then I should be able to ID the actual satellite being received from lyngsat/kingofsat sites, but how do I then tell the receiver to correct itself, without moving and enter the correct details for the current Sat?

As I've not got on with the setup booklet, I assume 'send the motor and dish to 0.8W' is a matter of selecting that satellite on the receiver and letting the motor track to the (firmware encoded?) location the motor should be pointed to (assuming the datum/starting point of the dish was accurately set to South). Once there, do I really have to move the dish about until I see the correct frequencies on the TV (or should it just be a matter of fine adjustment to get the strongest signal)??

Very happy to do the test and adjust bit, arching the dish from extreme sats east to west, but until I can find a central sat, ensure it is 'coded in' accurately and can be found again reliably, I think I would just go round in circles.

 

[Mickha]

You set up USALS, on your receiver, enter your Latitude, and Longitude, then the receiver calculates where to sent the motor when you select 0.8W.
In your case, as your Longitude is 2.7W, it should send the motor around 1.9 degrees East, so that when you align the dish on 0.8W the 0, on the motor, should be pointing at 2.7W.
Check william-1's strongest transponder list, for help in finding the satellites:
Just Sharing This - Strongest Transponders

 

[BigAitch]

Thanks, again!

 

[a33]

Latitude: 52.2467°
Longitude: -2.7058° (West)

1. Both the dish and the motor have adjustable inclination. I’m guessing the one on the dish is made for a non-motorised setup and should be set to 0°/90° (vertical) and the scale on the motor used for my latitude (eg 30.2° for 0.8W IntelSat). Is that correct?

No that is not correct; both have to be set at a specific angle, depending on your latitude.
To best follow the arc, use the "modified" motor angles (polar axis tilt settings), for your latitude those would be:
Modified motor elevation 37.1* (equals 52.9* on a "latitude" scale)
Modified dish declination offset 6.9*. Depending on the crank angle of the motor tube, there is a formula how that compares to the dish elevation scale. (Do you have the manual for your motor? you can find the formula there.)

You could use that formula, or try to find the dish elevation angle while trying to find your south satellite (e.g. with the use of USALS, as described above). As your south satellite position has an elevation of about 30*, and your dish an offset angle of probably some 22-26 degrees, you could try to find your south satellite with your dish face leaning backwards some 4-8 degrees from the vertical.

greetz,
A33

BTW And welcome to the forum, and to the hobby!

 

[BigAitch]

Thanks A33, both for the info and the welcome! Sadly I don't have a handbook for the dish motor and (so far) haven't found one on line. I feel sure if I did, setting up the dish/motor angles here would be a lot easier (to understand).

It's peeing down at the mo' so I've got the excuse that reception won't be at its best, and will probably have a crack at aligning things tomorrow (unless it fares up in the next 90 mins).

 

[Lazarus]

In practical terms:

Double check the dish is securely and squarely clamped to the Motor stub coincident with the fine datum mark you should find on the stub.

Set the Motor to your Latitude using its Latitude scale (take care here, as many Motors also have a scale marked Elevation: Ignore it).

Set the dish Elevation bracket to around 24. This should be close enough as a starting point for peaking.

Set the LNB skew to zero.

To align, once Thor has been selected as mentioned earlier, peak Elevation using only the dish bracket and peak Azimuth only by swinging the entire Motor/Dish assembly as one unit around the pole.

 

[Channel Hopper]

Thanks A33, both for the info and the welcome! Sadly I don't have a handbook for the dish motor and (so far) haven't found one on line. I feel sure if I did, setting up the dish/motor angles here would be a lot easier (to understand).

It's peeing down at the mo' so I've got the excuse that reception won't be at its best, and will probably have a crack at aligning things tomorrow (unless it fares up in the next 90 mins).

This will be almost identical in operation/set up

Moteck SG-2100 Manual

 

[BigAitch]

I really appreciate the answers here, and the clear description Lazarus (that has crystalised exactly what I need to do!). Link to the manual is also very helpful Channel-Hopper!

So a big thank you to you all!! Once I get out and start tweaking things, I will report back!

 

[a33]

The manual from STAB is also not bad. Search for "manual HH100 HH120 STAB"; the 5-language manual is pretty extensive.

However, they (also) don't use the modified motor angles setup, which is a pity, and the values for cities in Italy that are given as examples are also not very exact.

Good luck!
A33

 

[BigAitch]

Just a quick update (as I said I would - I hate it when threads just dead end with no outcome), I got called away just before I got my teeth into the setup and have not been at home long enough to do it.

However, whilst I was away I looked on a well known auction site and see that a Satlink ws-6906 can be had for about £45. This seems to be able to not only help with signal strength (having IDd on screen the satellite the dish is pointing at), but it can also show channels on the handheld gadget's screen (the TV shows)..

Does anyone have experience of these devices, and if so can they recommend whether it is worth having (I suspect I will be moving my dish around quite a bit, during various DIY projects at home) and if my understanding of what they're capable of is correct? If I am understanding correctly what the thing does, is this the cheapest gadget that delivers those functions?

As always, any help much appreciated!

 

[TJExcalibur]

Just a quick update (as I said I would - I hate it when threads just dead end with no outcome), I got called away just before I got my teeth into the setup and have not been at home long enough to do it.

However, whilst I was away I looked on a well known auction site and see that a Satlink ws-6906 can be had for about £45. This seems to be able to not only help with signal strength (having IDd on screen the satellite the dish is pointing at), but it can also show channels on the handheld gadget's screen (the TV shows)..

Does anyone have experience of these devices, and if so can they recommend whether it is worth having (I suspect I will be moving my dish around quite a bit, during various DIY projects at home) and if my understanding of what they're capable of is correct? If I am understanding correctly what the thing does, is this the cheapest gadget that delivers those functions?

As always, any help much appreciated!

Google the reviews on it. Those on Amazon are pretty dire.

 

[Ghostleader]

Does anyone have experience of these devices,

Yip I have one as do another couple of members, good for the money but beware of copies as there's a lot of them out there of that model.

 

[pontiend]

there is a long thread about the satlink 6906 and freesat v6 here.
Just Sharing This - A new meter and plans for next year...

 

[RustySpoons]

I'd take the Freesat V8 Finder over the 6906, the 6906 is based on an old tuner and no DVB-S2 or HDMI if you ever want to use it as a receiver, i.e. camping or if your receiver goes down it's handy. The Freesat V8 Finder has HDMI out and DVB-S2.

I'd personally get the 6916, which I might be trying myself as there are some slight flaws with the Freesat V8 Finder that affect me but might not affect you.

1, You cannot remove the battery symbol on the display, only annoying if you ever use the HDMI out.
2, The built in speaker cannot be disabled if you connect it to a HDMI device (I found a cheat by plugging the AV lead in it will mute it, or a blank 3.5mm plug)
3, Signal meter is just Signal Strength and Quality, no BER, SNR etc. Might be fine for most but I would like those features
4, The Beeper is just pointless, does not indicate signal strength audibly, just changes slightly if there is a signal but it's annoying and I turned it off.

So if the above don't matter grab the Freesat V8 Finder, if you want the above get the 6916.

 

[BigAitch]

Thanks so much for these informative replies....

I think I'll be upping my budget and getting the 6916..... But will revisit both the comments here and the google reviews so I have a higher chance of making the right decision...

 

[BigAitch]

Just a quick update, WS-6916 has arrived. Work and weather permitting, I will be trying to sort it all out this weekend (and report progress if I do).

Thanks again to all you contributors.

 

[RustySpoons]

Just a quick update, WS-6916 has arrived. Work and weather permitting, I will be trying to sort it all out this weekend (and report progress if I do).

Thanks again to all you contributors.

Be interested to know how you get on with it and how well the signal reading works