Nagravision 2 - which CI-Module?

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therasmus

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#1
I've got a Smartcard from RCS and would like to use it with a CI-Module or with my Dreambox 7000. The problem is that the card is now only working in the Hyundai HSS1120-NA (the receiver I activated the card with).
I read something about Boxkey and IRD. What are this two things exactly and how do I get this information from the Hyundai HSS1120-NA?
And please recomend me a Ci-Module which can handle this Nagravision 2 SmartCard.
 
guiri

guiri

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#3
You need a nagravision cam probably (like gemplus). These cams have a boxkey which the card reads and then locks itself to as part of the activation process. So then you can't use card elsewhere.

Cams like Matrix Reloaded (with standard firmware) have a programmable boxkey, but you'd still need a fresh card to lock to it. You'd then know the boxkey and could probably move the card to a different Matrix Reloaded cam (assuming it had the same default boxkey).

You might be able to read the boxkey out of your hyundai, then enter this into a cam like the matrix. But reading boxkey normally means taking a chip out and is fairly specialised.

Sorry didn't see your post yesterday - good job you asked again!
 
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therasmus

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#4
guiri said:
You need a nagravision cam probably (like gemplus). These cams have a boxkey which the card reads and then locks itself to as part of the activation process. So then you can't use card elsewhere.

Cams like Matrix Reloaded (with standard firmware) have a programmable boxkey, but you'd still need a fresh card to lock to it. You'd then know the boxkey and could probably move the card to a different Matrix Reloaded cam (assuming it had the same default boxkey).

You might be able to read the boxkey out of your hyundai, then enter this into a cam like the matrix. But reading boxkey normally means taking a chip out and is fairly specialised.

Sorry didn't see your post yesterday - good job you asked again!
The receiver shows me under "System information" a 12 digit CAM number. Is this maybe the boxkey? And I've got another question. What is IRD?
 
guiri

guiri

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#6
The boxkey (bk) is hidden in your receiver; the IRD number is public. So the 12 digit number will be the IRD number. IRD stands for Integrated Receiver Decoder.

The use of a public IRD allows you to provide this information to the satellite provider, who can then manipulate your particular receiver and card.

The software link is for nagra1, and it was sometimes possible to extract the bk from the card under that system. But I don't know if it is possible under nagra2 (I doubt it).

zackyfiles used to have good descriptions of hacking the bk from various receivers, but these were models common in spain. For the hyundai, you might have to find a website specialising in RCS.
 
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therasmus

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#7
OK. Thank you very much for your answer :-). The problem is that there exists only one big romanian satellite forum and it is sponsored by RCS. So you don't have the right to talk about this thing there. Zackyfiles... the problem is that I don't speak spanish.
But one last question... lets say I have the boxkey, IRD and a Matrix CI-Module. Would it then be possible to watch RCS on my Dreambox 7000 for sure?
 
guiri

guiri

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#8
therasmus said:
lets say I have the boxkey, IRD and a Matrix CI-Module. Would it then be possible to watch RCS on my Dreambox 7000 for sure?
The simple answer from me is I don't know. I have done very little research on nagra2, and my only experience with nagra1 was with via digital (now digital plus).

There might be a software cam you can use on your dreambox for nagra2 (I guess some people might be using something like that for card sharing for pre*iere wo*ld in germany, which is also in nagra2).

Anyway, do you know a way to get the boxkey; that's a big "lets say"?
 
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bismarkd

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#9
To get Boxkey,s from a receiver ..You have to use,a jtag reader to read the receiver for the boxkey,s...
 
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bismarkd

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#10
Nagra1is working for now,but plans to change to nagra2,in the near future,no hack known for nagra2 .yet...
 
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therasmus

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#11
bismarkd said:
Nagra1is working for now,but plans to change to nagra2,in the near future,no hack known for nagra2 .yet...
but why is my SmartCard from "Premiere" (also Nagra2) working in my Dreambox?
 
guiri

guiri

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#12
I think Premiere is nagra2 at the core, but wrapped in some older system (like betacrypt) to maintain compatability with receivers. So Premiere does not need a nagra cam, and is not box keyed. Hence people can do card sharing.
 
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therasmus

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#13
I just managed to change my SmartCard. I will get a new one (not activated and paired with a receiver yet) next week. I want to order a CAM now where I can enter the Boxkey but I don't know which one. There are also 2 Matrix CAMs, Reloaded and Revolutions. And because it's my first CAM... how can I enter a Boxkey and IRD into a CAM?
 
guiri

guiri

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#14
i have a matrix reloaded; on that cam, editing the bk is one of the menu options accessed via the CI-module menu of your receiver. With the standard firmware, you can't change/view the IRD.

Are you sure you don;t need to provide the IRD to RCS as part of the activation procedure?

And did you look into whether the dreambox can do a nagra cam emulation with one of its smart card slots (where you can enter the bk and IRD)?
 
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therasmus

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#15
Last time I just called RCS and told my SmartCard number and they activated the card. But probably they knew the IRD of the receiver because I bought the receiver with the SmartCard direct from them.
I'll just order a Matrix CAM. If its not working I'll sell it at eBay. But how can I flash another firmware to the Matrix CAM in case I need to change the IRD?
 
guiri

guiri

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#16
If you look at the attached image, you'll see it's a gemplus (nagravision) cam with the IRD number under the barcode. I've never seen any reference to changing this in a matrix reloaded though, just the box key.

When you asked for your new smart card, did you indicate you were going to activate it in a new receiver, or did you say that the dog ate the old one?

If RCS allow you to change receivers, your best bet may be to get a gemplus cam, then you can quote them the IRD off the back of the cam (as per the photo). Your new card will be locked to the cam, but at least you can put the cam in whatever CI receiver you want.

The matrix cam option might work if you don't need to give them the new IRD number, just the new smartcard number. Then you'll end up locking the card to a matrix cam, which has a default known boxkey. Good luck!
 

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therasmus

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#17
I told them that I lost it :D. They didn't really believe me but they will send a new SmartCard to me today. I'll order this Gemplus CAM. Hope it works :-).
 
guiri

guiri

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#19
I think the change from nagra1 to nagra2 was to make the smart cards more secure, the aim wasn't to require a change to all the receivers/CAMs as well. So logically you'd expect the cam to be ok with both. But there's only one way to find out for sure ...

Anyway, let us know how you get on, in case anybody else has the same questions.
 
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therasmus

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#20
OK. I just ordered one for 69 €. I hope the price is okay. If its not working I'm selling it. I'm sure someone will want to have it :D.
As soon as I have the SmartCard and the CAM I'll post the result.
 
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