Problems with motorized 68 cm Penta on some East satellites

sonnetpete

Grumpy Old Retired Moderator and quiz inquisitor..
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
8,949
Reaction score
3,496
Points
113
Age
73
Website
wordpress.com
My Satellite Setup
Laminas 1.2M fibre dish with an IBU, on a Clarke Tech USALS motor, covering 57E - 24.5W to an Octagon SX88. Displayed on a 20" Dyon LED TV.

Seperate 80 cm dish on 28E with a Humax Freesat for SWMBO.
Free Sat V8 meter. Sony Bravia 46" LCD, Sony BluRay and Home Cinema.
My Location
Normandy, France
Rob,

Just to clarify, first photo shows dish pointing at 53°E, which I do receive. The trees are considerably further away than the ones in the second photo, but less 'suitable' for trimming as they are cider pear, cider apple and walnut. I guess I'll just have to wait till Autumn U-zzz

Perhaps you may have to do the same, unless you know a good 'elegagiste'. At least I think thats what the French call a tree surgeon!!

Pete
 

hexah

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
2,838
Reaction score
680
Points
113
Age
17
My Satellite Setup
motorized Gibertini 85cm, fixed dishes from 1m to 64cm, generic FTA HD RX, TBS DVB-S2 PC card, a pile of bits and pieces
My Location
Hadrians Wall
A spirit level is not accurate enough.

An electronic inclinometer or a good old fashioned plumb line will get the pole vertical with 0.1 degree accuracy. Once it is absolutely straight, aligning the dish should be quick and easy, especially with USALS.

The Technisat Multytenne also needs to be mounted on an absolutely vertical mount because the skew is preset within the huge LNB. If this is done, and it is peaked on 19e using a squawker meter, it will then give the good results intended by the designer, up to the 51dBW contour of any transponder received :)

I suspect that most people who install the Multytenne do not realize that, resulting in an unnecessarily high BER and reduced rain fade margin.

The idea that they should only be used as far north as Birmingham is something of a throwback to the 1980s, it originally referred to the Eutelsat II F1 footprint which was actually backed off somewhat from the published footprint - it was revised a few times from the initial guestimate, 47dBW in my 1985 map then 46dBW in my 1987 map... - but not too far otherwise people might have thought they were wacko rip-off merchants. Eutelsat was a quasi multi government quango thing then :-rofl2 and liked to ignore the growing perception that the signal rolled off north of Birmingham. Birmingham is now on the 53dBW EIRP contour which is on the threshold for a 33cm dish but fine on the slightly larger camping dishes :-rofl2

Remember, in those days with noisy LNBs and primitive tuners, that 1dBW difference meant that 1m dishes were on the threshold and those poor people saving £100 by getting a 90cm dish were soon introduced to the concept of the FM threshold while using cheap receivers with no possibility of extension :-rofl2 :-rofl2 :-rofl2

Properly installed the ultra modern Multytenne should give good results north to Glasgow, Edinburgh and Stirling on most Hotbird transponders. They are already reported to work well in Nottingham and Lincolnshire.

In fact, people who know their geography may have realized that the designers would have at the very least covered all of Germany, and that Flensburg is on a latitude with Sunderland and Newcastle Upon Tyne. All are on the 52dBW contour, so it is no surprise that it should work that far north - it was intended to!

Nantes is on the 52dBW contour for Astra 2D and since you had no problems, that proves the point. The Multytenne single and twin are an excellent solution for some people with limited space, or with non-technical friends and relatives who can be given a huge viewing choice of 13e 19e 23.5e and 28e from one small dish.

The few weaker transponders on Hotbird 6 will be strengthened next Spring when the new Hotbird 10 will replace Hotbird 6. They are not that weak anyway, they should only go off in torrential rain :-worship

Anyway, the same absolutely vertical principle applies to the motorized dish, though in the old days the big dishes were easily micro-adjustable which made life easier (they were bloody heavy though!!!).

The loss through the diseqc motor can be compensated for by finding the recommend dish size for the EIRP on the footprint map then get a dish 25% larger. This is also a good aproach for a domestic SMATV system or for mult-LNBs and diseqc switches. Monoblocks have neglible loss but a larger dish should compensate for one satellite being out of focus, hence an 80cm is usually recommended by Eutelsat.


:toke:
 

hexah

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
2,838
Reaction score
680
Points
113
Age
17
My Satellite Setup
motorized Gibertini 85cm, fixed dishes from 1m to 64cm, generic FTA HD RX, TBS DVB-S2 PC card, a pile of bits and pieces
My Location
Hadrians Wall
A spirit level is not accurate enough.

An electronic inclinometer or a good old fashioned plumb line will get the pole vertical with 0.1 degree accuracy. Once it is absolutely straight, aligning the dish should be quick and easy, especially with USALS.

The Technisat Multytenne also needs to be mounted on an absolutely vertical mount because the skew is preset within the huge LNB. If this is done, and it is peaked on 19e using a squawker meter, it will then give the good results intended by the designer, up to the 51dBW contour of any transponder received :)

I suspect that most people who install the Multytenne do not realize that, resulting in an unnecessarily high BER and reduced rain fade margin.

The idea that they should only be used as far north as Birmingham is something of a throwback to the 1980s, it originally referred to the Eutelsat II F1 footprint which was actually backed off somewhat from the published footprint - it was revised a few times from the initial guestimate, 47dBW in my 1985 map then 46dBW in my 1987 map... - but not too far otherwise people might have thought they were wacko rip-off merchants. Eutelsat was a quasi multi government quango thing then :-rofl2 and liked to ignore the growing perception that the signal rolled off north of Birmingham. Birmingham is now on the 53dBW EIRP contour which is on the threshold for a 33cm dish but fine on the slightly larger camping dishes :-rofl2

Remember, in those days with noisy LNBs and primitive tuners, that 1dBW difference meant that 1m dishes were on the threshold and those poor people saving £100 by getting a 90cm dish were soon introduced to the concept of the FM threshold while using cheap receivers with no possibility of extension :-rofl2 :-rofl2 :-rofl2

Properly installed the ultra modern Multytenne should give good results north to Glasgow, Edinburgh and Stirling on most Hotbird transponders. They are already reported to work well in Nottingham and Lincolnshire.

In fact, people who know their geography may have realized that the designers would have at the very least covered all of Germany, and that Flensburg is on a latitude with Sunderland and Newcastle Upon Tyne. All are on the 52dBW contour, so it is no surprise that it should work that far north - it was intended to!

Nantes is on the 52dBW contour for Astra 2D and since you had no problems, that proves the point. The Multytenne single and twin are an excellent solution for some people with limited space, or with non-technical friends and relatives who can be given a huge viewing choice of 13e 19e 23.5e and 28e from one small dish.

The few weaker transponders on Hotbird 6 will be strengthened next Spring when the new Hotbird 10 will replace Hotbird 6. They are not that weak anyway, they should only go off in torrential rain :-worship

Anyway, the same absolutely vertical principle applies to the motorized dish, though in the old days the big dishes were easily micro-adjustable which made life easier (they were bloody heavy though!!!).

The loss through the diseqc motor can be compensated for by finding the recommend dish size for the EIRP on the footprint map then get a dish 25% larger. This is also a good aproach for a domestic SMATV system or for mult-LNBs and diseqc switches. Monoblocks have neglible loss but a larger dish should compensate for one satellite being out of focus, hence an 80cm is usually recommended by Eutelsat.


:toke:
 

satelliteman

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
12,039
Reaction score
387
Points
83
My Satellite Setup
See signature
My Location
Northants, Midlands UK & Lanzarote, Canary Islands
Thanks for the info hexah.
 

satelliteman

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
12,039
Reaction score
387
Points
83
My Satellite Setup
See signature
My Location
Northants, Midlands UK & Lanzarote, Canary Islands
Thanks for the info hexah.
 
Top