Project Fibo

[Huevos]

Guys, if I hack the Black Ultra to fit to the feedhorn, does that mean I wouldn't be able to adjust the skew or focal point for the best signal?

You adjust the skew exactly the same way as the C120 LNB. Just loosen the grub-screw on the side of the feed and turn the LNB. The focal point is governed by dish design.

 

[Captain Jack]

My screw there seems to be missing for some reason.... Unless it's so rusted through that it's gone..

How far into the feed should the LNB go?

 

[nelson_b]

My screw there seems to be missing for some reason.... Unless it's so rusted through that it's gone..

How far into the feed should the LNB go?

hi -- Captain Jack

about 17 mm -on the original c120 fitting - you can see the grub screw mark on the picture ---

looking forward to the project results --

 

[Captain Jack]

The flange thing you have in the picture is stuck solid inside the feedhorn and there's no screw. There's a hole... but no screw. Didn't want to break the assembly so I will try to stick the Ultra's main body shaft into this flange... think that would work? Took measurements but it's a little close for comfort...

 

[nelson_b]

The flange thing you have in the picture is stuck solid inside the feedhorn and there's no screw. There's a hole... but no screw. Didn't want to break the assembly so I will try to stick the Ultra's main body shaft into this flange... think that would work? Took measurements but it's a little close for comfort...

ah - i see -- i,v not had that problem --
i seem to remember one of mine was stuck when i bought it but lots of WD 40 and then i think i heated it up by pouring lots of boiling water over it - ( didn,t want to use a flame or hot air gun ) and it loosened - the grub screw is very short/small and needs an Allen key to undo it --
a pic below of how mine is now with an ultra fitted --

 

[Captain Jack]

Nice - I see you covered it in some water proof stuff.

Welp, here's my work in progress and the LNB shoved into the Fibo feedhorn. No idea how well it will work but hey-ho. Will find out tomorrow!

The pole IS straight - it's just my wonky camera work. Used washers to level out the uneven roof.

 

[Captain Jack]

Welp, spent the day installing the dish and to say I am impressed is a big overstatement. I can't get any sort of signal on it which resembles a 1.2m dish. It's behaving like it's a very well installed Penta 85 - in fact most of the satellites' signal strengths are only marginally better than the Penta and nowhere near what I used to get on the 1m Channel Master (I am not even mentioning the 1.2m version).

I am not sure if the dish is warped as it has been stored upright for about 7 years but stringing it didn't reveal any issues and it looks OK to the eye. So, it could be alignment - but it seems to be tracking things OK. I get satellites from 37.5W to 42E beyond which there's a house wall and trees respectively. At extremes and the middle, I cannot improve signal by nudging the dish in various directions.

The last thing it could be (and is my primary suspect) is the bodged Black Ultra LNB. I don't know if the skew is wrong or if it's out of focus (pushed it too far/not far enough into the feedhorn). I washed the inside of the feedhorn as it had bugs in it and cobwebs but it seems clean. Can the old and floppy plastic feedhorn cover cause degradation in signal?

I will get a proper C120 LNB and screw it on. That way I will know that the focal point is correct. However, I don't think I'll be able to adjust the skew as the flange is stuck solid inside the feedhorn. Annoying. May try nelson_b's method of dumping it in WD40 and see if I can free it up.

Should it all fail, I will be putting my trusty 1.2m Channel Master on.

Anyway, here are the pics. Everything is bog standard except the guy wires to stabilise the pole. It was rather wobbly at the top.

 

[aceb]

May try nelson_b's method of dumping it in WD40 and see if I can free it up.

The other trick is use something like a plumbers gas torch to heat up the outer parts of what ever is stuck and while it's red hot try and seperate the two halves. I had to do this on my precision feed because the flange was stuck solid in that, heat for a minute then hit with a hammer! Inverto do a C120, the Black Pro which I use on my 1.8, seems to work OK on 7W etc but never compared it to anything else.

Don't give up the dish too quickly, I know Zorch has one and his results are easily as good as my 1.2 if not better.

 

[nelson_b]

hi -
looking at yesterdays close up pictures - the c120 flange does look as if it could be quite firmly attached to the feedhorn --
i was reluctant to use a flame/ extreme heat on mine - for fear of damaging the plastic feed cover , which would be hard to find a replacement for --
removing the grub screw and a regular soaking with wd40 and finaly pouring boiling water over the area - got mine -- yours may be more difficult ---- a little shock treatment with a hammer when hot as -- " aceb " suggested can work wonders
on your picture of the feed assembly it looks as though someone has been trying to drill out the grub screw -- and has not finished the job -- -- it will never come apart if the tip of the grub screw is still in there --
i agree with "aceb " the inverto black pro c120 is the one to get -- if you go the c120 route --
i have one on my c.m. 1.8 --- and its a fraction better than the inverto white tech that i had used for the past 5 years --
the fibo 1.2 is a good dish and should certainly equal or maybe slightly outperform a channel master 1.2
mine is not being used to its full potential really --- as its squeezed in between the 1.8 and the fixed alcoa - so has only a quite limited arc - and is connected to a skystar 2 p.c card -- not bad but not the most sensitive tuner -----

you asked ---" Can the old and floppy plastic feedhorn cover cause degradation in signal? "

i wouldnt have thought so it looks ok on the pictures -- i have had an inverto black ultra go faulty after a quite short time though -(and have heard of other early failures ) - it still worked but just went weak --- i e lost all its normally good sensitivity

regards --

p.s. i must say the dish looks good on the - "as new" - channel master mount

 

[Captain Jack]

Thanks both for the advice. I think you're right in that someone tried to drill the screw out - I could drill it out but if I go C120 route, maybe the skew won't be an issue?

I know what you mean about Black Ultras dying. One of mine simply stopped working completely one evening with no warning.

Another thought I had - maybe the sub-reflector needs adjustment? That's one thing I haven't played with yet... I simply screwed it in and left it alone.

Certainly the Channel Master 1.2m is a great performer and I'd be very happy if the Fibo could outperform it. I expected, at the very least, a matched performance.

Hopefully Zorch will be around shortly with some advice. In the meantime, I will get the C120 LNB... and maybe another Black Ultra if I have to put the Channel Master on. Thankfully, it's a bolt off the Fibo and bolt on the CM dish face job... and need to adjust the declination. Shouldn't need any further adjustment.

 

[Zorch]

Hi Captain Jack, nelson_b, aceb et al,

@Captain Jack
You've done a very nice job there mate... however there are a few issues that I would be a bit wary of... but please don't take any of my observations as criticism mate... far from it... I can't do anything like this myself now due to health problems... I wish I still could...

From looking at your pictures... the sturdiness of the mounting pole and place of installation looks to be a bit insubstantial to me... as a comparison... my Fibo was professionally installed 18 years ago and was mounted on a cast-iron drainpipe (which is protected from the elements by means of industrial lagging) ...the drainpipe has no give in it whatsoever... and it was secured vertically to an exterior wall (rather than base mounted) by means of three massive T-brackets which are about a foot apart... and the installers used the biggest masonry bolts I had ever seen...

Myself personally... I wouldn't have modded/replaced the original polar mount... I have never modded anything on my dish... there are still numerous Fibo enthusiasts around who could have helped you out with a replacement Fibo 36v motor if yours was no longer in working order... and if you had added limit switches to the arc part of the mount... you could have then used DiSEqC 1.2 positioning and converted the commands from your receiver to 36v via a V-Box or an Aston Interface etc. etc.

I also have had terrible trouble with that tiny (Hex/Allen key) grub screw on the feed horn... it will not come loose... therefore I have only tried/used C120 flange LNB's on my dish... the Inverto Black Pro is very good... it knocked spots off the Invacom SNF-031 which I tried for a week or so... before it came off for good...

I suspect (suspect) that your Fibo dish is under-performing due to LNB focus issues and also issues arising from the exact/precise elevation/declination of the dish due to it's stability and the modification/replacement of the original polar mount... I have found the original mounts to very very accurate...

As I said at the start of my post... please don't take any of my observations as criticism mate... the installation of any Fibo dish has to be both very sturdy and very precise... even with ones that have had no modifications done to them... but I'm sure you will persevere though... and you will eventually get the results you are looking for/expecting from the dish...

BTW
Your Fibo dish is exactly the same as mine... it was re-branded as an SCT Highway back in the day... yours seems to have lost the logo stickers from the face of the dish and the sub-reflector... mine are still in place although they have now been bleached white by the sun...

I hope you get it sorted mate... it will be well worth the effort...!!

Best Wishes,
Zorch

 

[Captain Jack]

Thank you Zorch for your response. Much appreciated.

Yes, the mounting pole isn't as sturdy as I would have liked. The actual pole came with the Channel Master dish but it's missing the "stabiliser legs" hence the slight wobble at the top. When I had my CM dish on this, the location was quite sheltered and I wasn't worried. Here it's less sheltered, hence the guy wires. Still, it's quite stable and it's bolted into the steel reinforced concrete roof, so it isn't going anywhere.

With regards to the polar mount modification, the original motor would probably still work but I haven't tried it. One of the nylon cog wheels split in half and I would also need to get 5v to the optocoupler sensor on the motor. Considering I already had a refurbished CM polar mount, it was much easier to simply adapt the Fibo mounting to the CM polar mount. It would also be a bolt off/bolt on job to swap between the two - if I wanted to. And if I cannot get the Fibo working properly, it's exactly what I will be doing.

I have ordered the Black Pro LNB today (they are really cheap!) so will give it a go when it arrives. Will probably be after the bank holiday now though.

 

[Chris76]

Hey CJ

Just been catching up on the forum and reading up on your work very well done CJ i have green eyes for your project i just wish i had time to complete my gibi 1.25 with the same professionalism as the fibo. i will be looking forward to the results.


Chris

 

[Captain Jack]

Well, this is odd. Just been messing about with 5E and while tuning to frequency 12456H, I inadvertently put in V instead of H and got a reading of 10db! Scanning this TP revealed that it was actually looking at 12437V transponder. That's quite a deviation!

Is this a Dr HD trait where it "homes in" on its frequency or is something funny going on here....?

12456H itself was locking at over 8db and scanning channels on THAT frequency.

 

[jcm193]

ive just scanned that in one seconds its saying signal 97 quality 75 there is just disappears no idea what is going on here

 

[Captain Jack]

Got the Black Pro LNB today. Do I need to remove the plastic film cover on it or should I leave it on as a protector?

Got the new Channel Master LNB holder today as well, in case the Fibo fails me...

 

[aceb]

I've left mine on, the results I had from 7W suggested all was OK.

 

[nelson_b]

I've left mine on, the results I had from 7W suggested all was OK.

yes -- the same here always left them on --

 

[Captain Jack]

Thanks chaps, will let you know how I get on.

 

[Zorch]

Hi Captain Jack, aceb, nelson_b et al,

Got the Black Pro LNB today. Do I need to remove the plastic film cover on it or should I leave it on as a protector?

I've left mine on, the results I had from 7W suggested all was OK.

yes -- the same here always left them on --

That's strange... I have always removed the plastic film cover from the Inverto Black Pro/White Tech LNB's before they were fitted... I then use clear silicon sealant to protect the joint between LNB and feedhorn... I have never tried using these LNB's with the plastic film cover left on... I wonder if I'm missing a trick here by taking it off... or is everyone else missing a trick by leaving it on... do these LNB's actually perform even better with it removed...?

Best Wishes,
Zorch