Advice Needed Single & quad universal lnbs + multiswitch

[scooter84]

Good day gentlemen! Could you please check and advise if below configuration will work.

I have 2 single universal linear LNB, 1 quad circular LNB and 8 STBs. Deciding now to order either 8/8 or 4/8 multiswitch with quad LNb and 22KHz tone support at VH and HH inputs, if latter will be sufficient that would be nice.
I'll be watching 36E (circular, both polarizations and high bands), 46E (low band and only horizontal) and 42E (low band and also horizontal).
So idea is to wire 2 cables from quad circular LNB and connect it to multiswitch VH and HH ports, configure STBs for this satellite as 13V/18V ON and 22KHz ON.
Wire 1 cable from single universal LNB and connect to HL input, configure STBs for this satellite as 18V ON, 22KHz OFF and LO 9750MHz.
And at last take 1 cable from another single universal LNB and connect it to VL port but align LNB to dish horizontally (for reversing polarization), configure STBs for this satellite as 13V ON, 22KHZ OFF and LO 9750MHz.

Total 4 coaxial cables will be used from the dishes to multiswitch, and if this is going to work then I'll order multiswitch with only 4 SAT IF inputs (cheaper).

Many thanks in advance.

 

[a33]

Good day scooter84, and welcome to the forum!


You've done some creative thinking, and yes, I think it can be done that way!
The circular LNB is also a universal LNB, I presume? You do not explicitly mention that, but it is a necessary condition for your setup, as you wrote.

Of course the 90 degrees turned LNB should be rainprotected.

And you may give the programming of the STBs a bit attention: you could programm all 4 frequency ranges as ONE satellite, while doing a transponder scan. Then all programms are 'collected' under one satellite name.
Or you could define three satellites, configure the LNBs as written above, and do separate scans for them. Consequence will be (when 'blind scanning') that not just ONE frequency range will be scanned, but at least two (or four, when a universal LNB is defined). So when you want to have 'clean' programm lists per LNB, you'd have to disconnect the not-aimed LNBs while scanning.
Or you could define a 22kHz ON satellite programm list, and a 22kHz OFF satellite programm list.
The 'all programms under one satellite name' would probably be the easiest, but I don't know what you want.
When just one satellite would often change frequencies, a separate list per satellite would probably be more usefull. But the choice is yours.

I don't know about which multiswitches do QUAD-ability though, so for the choice of that I have no advice whatsoever.

greetz,
A33

 

[scooter84]

Thanks for welcoming and for your attention A33!

I'm glad to hear this setup will make a sense.

The circular LNB is also a universal LNB, I presume?

Yes

Of course the 90 degrees turned LNB should be rain protected

Thanks for this suggestion, didn't think about that... I'll take measures for it.

Due to this 90 degrees manipulation, is there any chance that some signal will be degraded?

And you may give the programming of the STBs a bit attention:

Good options, I've never thought earlier to combine every satellite as one. But I'll scan them separately, save as 3 different ones and later create some favorite lists. Anyway I just need only 2 TPs (HL) from 46E and 42E for desired channels. 36E will be full spectrum of high band.

 

[a33]

Due to this 90 degrees manipulation, is there any chance that some signal will be degraded?

No, not at all. Only the increased risk of water ingression at the F-connector; hence my suggestion.

Anyway I just need only 2 TPs (HL) from 46E and 42E for desired channels. 36E will be full spectrum of high band.

I'dd define 36E as single LOF 10600 then, with 22kHz ON;
and 42/46E as one satellite with single LOF 9750, 22kHz OFF.
So this solution:

Or you could define a 22kHz ON satellite programm list, and a 22kHz OFF satellite programm list.

The advantage being, that you don't scan the other LNB's frequency ranges.

Edit: That is, because in many STBs that I know, you cannot define an LNB for just 13 volt or for just 18 volt, I believe. However, I must confess I never tried it, because I never made a setup like you propose. So depending on the STBs you have, perhaps your idea is just as good, or even better than mine!


You'll probably have to attribute a diseqc 1.0 choice to the two(/three) configured 'satellites', and you can choose any diseqc command you like there. The command will be sent, but as there is no switch to react to it in your setup, it will be neglected/lost.


I always like to see such creative thinking and solutions!
Do keep us posted!

greetz,
A33

Edit2
BTW, you wrote you already have the one quad LNB and the two single LNBs. If you would need other bands of the two single LNBs, you could also use quatro LNBs there, and use the desired frequency range output of them. Most quatro LNBs don't mind if they receive 13 or 18 volt, or 0 or 22kHz; they give out the frequencies indicated at the F-connector. (Only some quatro LNBs need the power to be supplied at a specific port; but most can accept power at any port.)

 

[scooter84]

I'dd define 36E as single LOF 10600 then, with 22kHz ON;

Agree, less "headache" for receiver and multiswitch CPUs

because in many STBs that I know, you cannot define an LNB for just 13 volt or for just 18 volt, I believe. However, I must confess I never tried it, because I never made a setup like you propose.

I've already checked, there are such options in my Tiger T6 Class HD 8M, can be set as 13V, 18V or 13/18V together.

You'll probably have to attribute a diseqc 1.0 choice to the two(/three) configured 'satellites', and you can choose any diseqc command you like there. The command will be sent, but as there is no switch to react to it in your setup, it will be neglected/lost.

Do I really need to apply diseqc settings for only one set of multiswitch inputs (HL, VL, HH, VH)? I thought it would be needed if more than 4 SAT IF inputs are used in multiswitch (full band and polarities of SAT 2, SAT 3, ... etc).

I always like to see such creative thinking and solutions!
Do keep us posted!

Thanks again! I'm really motivated now!
Will repost once everything completed. I'll be at home at the end of May and launch the project

 

[scooter84]

BTW, you wrote you already have the one quad LNB and the two single LNBs. If you would need other bands of the two single LNBs, you could also use quatro LNBs there, and use the desired frequency range output of them. Most quatro LNBs don't mind if they receive 13 or 18 volt, or 0 or 22kHz; they give out the frequencies indicated at the F-connector. (Only some quatro LNBs need the power to be supplied at a specific port; but most can accept power at any port.)

I was actually thinking about that, but for now this is all I need and would like to use all the gear I have at hand. Maybe I'll throw another set of 4 spare cables for future proofing and purchase 9/8 multiswitch(terrestrial included) instead. Need to think about that...

 

[a33]

Do I really need to apply diseqc settings for only one set of multiswitch inputs (HL, VL, HH, VH)? I thought it would be needed if more than 4 SAT IF inputs are used in multiswitch (full band and polarities of SAT 2, SAT 3, ... etc).

That depends on the receiver(s).
Some receivers can handle multiple satellites defined, with identical diseqc options for those satellites.
Other receivers need different diseqc options for different satellites. They do not accept that different satellites would have the same diseqc command.
So the receiver software is leading on that point. The 4/x multiswitch, as you write, does indeed not need a diseqc command.
(Maybe my using the word "probably" was too strong? I wrote it, because I've seen the issue before, and thought of it before it actually could be an issue with you.)

However, as I wrote, setting a diseqc command without a switch being there, is no problem.

Greetz,
A33

 

[Terryl]

Take a look at the EMP-Centauri line of multi switches, they have a switch to handle about any type of LNB combination, too as many receivers as needed.

Blog | EMP-Centauri

www.emp-centauri.cz

 

[scooter84]

Take a look at the EMP-Centauri line of multi switches, they have a switch to handle about any type of LNB combination, too as many receivers as needed.

Yes I already have MS9/8PIU-5 on my purchase list. At first I was considering Spaun multi-switches, but it seems they are quite expensive.
Thanks for your input terryl!

 

[scooter84]

Now regarding diplexers to divide SAT & Terr. signals at STB side. Are there any key points that I should take into account?
I'd like to make sure that they will pass all diseqc commands from STB to multiswitch.
To be short, do all diplexers pass voltage and 22KHz tone from STB back to LNB/multiswitch?

 

[Terryl]

If you need to add OTA signals (Over The Air) to the mix then I would suggest using a switch with a terrestrial signal input, this saves you one piece of in-line equipment that would add to the overall signal loss.

Some switches even have a DC voltage option for this input that can power a pre-amp for the OTA antenna.

Then the diplexer at the receiver side would be a standard one, all diplexer's for satellite/terrestrial signals will pass the DC voltage or Diseqc commands on the satellite side without problems.

These are what I use.

Holland STVC Satellite Diplexer

The STVC provides low loss diplexing of DBS and TV signals, separating them prior to satellite receiver input. Filters harmonics in the off-air spectrum from satellite conversion devices.

www.techtoolsupply.com

 

[scooter84]

Thanks, that's what I wanted to hear regarding diplexers at receivers' side.

EMP-Centauri MS9/8PIU-5 already has terrestrial input with built-in amplifier.

So are there any OTA active antennas that do not include power supply adapter (so i can power it from multiswitch)?
Or if for example I have passive antenna, how one should use multiswitch's internal amplifier to avoid signal loss?

Sorry if these questions sound stupid but I have never had any experience with active OTA antennas before.

 

[Terryl]

Most multi switches do not amplify the signals, some of the externally powered ones may, some even have an amp for OTA signals, it's all in what you can afford.

Active antennas?? Most antennas that I recommend would use (if needed) an external pre-amp, most of the so called active antennas are for close in signals (under 20 miles) and are mostly marketing hype.

 

[scooter84]

Let's say we talk about this specific model: EMP-Centauri MS9/8PIU-5. It has an active terrestrial input. How should I use that one correctly? What type of OTA antenna would be better to pair with?

 

[scooter84]

Take a look at the EMP-Centauri line of multi switches

I was not able to get official price list from them, sent an email but no response... I found some on ebay but not sure if they are legit and can be trusted.
Could you please direct me to some official dillers or websites where I can see actual prices?
Thanks.

 

[a33]

I was not able to get official price list from them, sent an email but no response...

Maybe because of good friday and easter?
From what I heard their customer service is not bad at all, and they take problems pretty serious.

Though pricewise you could get better offers on ebay, I heard.

Don't know about the active/passive terrestrial setup of the multiswitch.
It seems to affect:
-insertion loss compensation
-12V power for the antenna
-no/yes return path available.
My knowledge ends there, though.

greetz,
A33

 

[scooter84]

So I finally got in touch with ebay seller, also did some searching over the net.
It seems that, terrestrial amplifier inside the multiswitch only ensures that no signal is lost (compared to passive one) over the cable towards TVs and STBs. Whatever signal enters at an input port it is amplified, even if it's a noise, and by no means it can compensate signal loss in the cable coming from an antenna.
Transmission tower is 20-25 kilometers away from my house, plus about 20 meters cable will be required till multiswitch location. This means I'll also need to buy some preamplifier and install it right on the antenna.
Thank you all for your support. I'll update the post once finished. Have a great day ahead!