Sky abandons old foreign satellite prosecutions

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gameboy

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Sky and the FA Premier League have abandoned a number of old prosecutions against licensees who were caught showing foreign satellite football.

A string of recent cases have resulted in acquittals for licensees after courts ruled they were not being dishonest – because they believed their foreign satellite system to be legal.

More...

Source: Morning Advertiser
 

rolfw

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Just waiting for the flood of "Told you it was legal" posts. :-lmao



I find it really odd that the courts were still accepting the "I didn't think that I was doing anything wrong" defence, but surely that cannot persist, surely there can be no licensees left who haven't read about the cases?
 

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LOL, yes, if you read the whole article, it says

Blah blah, dropped existing cases, blah blah

Next year Sky and the FAPL will rip out the throats of any publicans showing non-Sky football, as they are now not attempting to prove wilful evasion, but a simple breach of Sky's 'copyright' in the UK.

In nearly all of the cases that were dropped, there was some stupid technical reason why they were eventually scrapped. Either time-barred or poor preparation of the relevant prosecution material.

Sky will get smarter, and they will stamp this out. Don't be stupid. Keep your ART card at home.

Uncle STICK
 

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rolfw said:
Just waiting for the flood of "Told you it was legal" posts.

Well, its more like I am having a trickle at the stand-up and typing this post at the same time - kind of flood.

Circumvention is one thing (if there is a better English word please tell me).

'cracking' a service is another! At the time of posting, the EU still finds encryption cracking a nasty thing.

I see it like this. If SES can have a domestic SKY box (and presumably a full sub card) in Luxemburg ...............

I can too.:D

.
 

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Circumvention isn't as fun as a 'hobby'.
 

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This isn't to do with domestic viewing Mark, it is to do with pubs rebroadcasting and using a domestic overseas subscription, but having not paid for rebroadcast rights.
 

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SKY have patronised and bullied publicans and forced them out of the loop with their extortionate charges. This new education period is simply another patronising frightener.

This wasn't always a problem though, but, over the last years, SKY's retail customer APRU has been on the express escalator to profit heaven. Sort out the charges and stupid live TV football rules and everyone would be happy.

Didn't even know it was possible for SKY/The FA to walk into a pub and say that an install is illegal. Whatever the route, those pictures have still been paid for and the FA still gets its share. Does wanton greed make something illegal? - we'll have to wait and see.

If SKY believe there has been a breach of copyright - why not approach the Service Provider and take them to court. Hehe, not likely: too much hard work and expense. Besides the Foreign Provider could turn the table and demand that SKY do something 'bout all those SKY boxes in Irish pubs all over Germany (for example).

This story is just as old and very similar to the AllOfMP3 saga: customer saves a buck by legal means then gets threatened with some spurious licensing crap.

.

.
 

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Channel Hopper said:
Circumvention isn't as fun as a 'hobby'.

You ain't joking! Nobody's cutting my foreskin off and telling me it's more fun than watching satellite telly! :-doh!
 

rolfw

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BarMoo said:
Didn't even know it was possible for SKY/The FA to walk into a pub and say that an install is illegal. Whatever the route, those pictures have still been paid for and the FA still gets its share. Does wanton greed make something illegal? - we'll have to wait and see.

If SKY believe there has been a breach of copyright - why not approach the Service Provider and take them to court. Hehe, not likely: too much hard work and expense. Besides the Foreign Provider could turn the table and demand that SKY do something 'bout all those SKY boxes in Irish pubs all over Germany (for example).

This story is just as old and very similar to the AllOfMP3 saga: customer saves a buck by legal means then gets threatened with some spurious licensing crap.

.

.

Stifles Yawn. ;)

Mark this has all been discussed before in previous threads and you are spouting the same spurious guff that was spouted in those threads as well, no basis in law, simply what you think should be the case.

This is nothing like the allofmp3 case, as they are an internet business based in a non EU state, try downloading albums from allofmp3 and reselling them at a profit in your UK or German record shop and see how long you get away with it.:-doh!

It has nothing to do with the Sky boxes in Germany, it is up to the German copyright holders for the events to sort that out as they are the ones who's copyright has been breached.

The closed period is a UEFA led scheme to protect the lower league attendances, nothing to do with Sky.

This is about businesses rebroadcasting television for profit and without having paid for the rebroadcast rights, not an individual saving a buck. I agree that the Sky charges for pubs are high, but at the end of the day, if pubs don't believe that they can make a profit from subscribing then they have the option not to, if enough licensees did that, then perhaps Sky would have to drop their prices, but don't expect them to stand still and let businesses with cheap domestic subscriptions, flout their copyright.
 

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Excellent post. At last, the situation laid out in the clearest possible way and spot on too :D

It's easy to cloud the real issues here, chuck in a heap of emotion and a bucketload of historical inaccuracy and everyone gets all soap-boxy.

It's clear cut. Let's keep it that way.

Sky are overpriced, but that's all they've done wrong here.
 

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Sky should spend more time pursuing the countless number of bars in Europe, that are blatently showing Sky Sports/Premiership etc.on a illegal residential subscription, rather than overcharging UK pub's & clubs IMHO
 

rolfw

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They don't care about them zansi, or at least, even if they do, they will not put any real effort into it, as it is not costing them money.

This problem could be stopped almost instantly, if the broadcasters could find a way of periodically but discretely flashing up the card details on the screen, as then once observed, the card could be switched off by the provider, but I'm not sure that it would be technically possible with a non-dedicated receiver.
 

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rolfw said:
Stifles Yawn.

Rolf, I know this has all been covered before. And ??

If guff gets you all sleepy, don't read/reply to it. Three-line pseudo-factoids are tedious. Correction: are tedious when stretched to three full paragraphs sandwiched between fluffy salad and posh mayo.

But, apologies to anyone who went sleepy-gaga on reading my guff anyway.;)

Real-Factoids #1: Essentially, it boils down to these periods (for England).

Article 48.2 (UEFA)
Implementing Regulations (Article 3)
Decision on 'blocked' hours by the national associations
2006/07 Season-All local time
England.

05.08.2006
14:45 - 17:15
19.08.2006 - 26.08.2006
14:45 - 17:15
09.09.2006
14.45 - 17.15
23.09.2006 - 30.09.2006
14:45 - 17:15
14.10.2006 - 17.03.2007
14:45 - 17:15
31.03.2007 - 28.04.2007
14:45 - 17:15
19.05.2007
14:45 - 17:15

Real-Factoid #2: SKY's and the FAPL's spin on this is "the dishonesty of receiving a [closed] match from a foreign TV station". Not re-broadcasting or making a profit.

Real-Factoid #3: The outcome for publicans (that started the thread).

Guff: True Story (names have been changed).

Enterprise Inns tenant Eileen Guff denied dishonestly showing the match at the Original Guff Horse, near Bolton using a decoder and foreign subscription card.

She was cleared at Bolton magistrates court after it ruled she had not acted dishonestly and did not avoid paying a fee because justices decided no payment was applicable.

Her solicitor Guff Egan said because the Premier League did not negotiate fees with individual pubs there was no deliberate intent to avoid payment.


More Stuff: See here which matches are closed in your country. There's more than I thought:eek: .

PubFootball Website (interesting guff from football fans in the know).

Final Guff from Mark: Paid-for copyright infringement - an oxymoron if ever there was one. I rest my guffing M'Lord.:-rofl2

.
 

rolfw

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Mark, how do you manage to find so much spurious information, Mickypedia perhaps? :-lmao

The case above is precisely why the FA are regrouping, they went for them in the wrong way and they were able to argue loopholes, pretty unbelievable ones at that, I'm pretty sure that they won't make the same mistake on the next cases.

Pub football website is not a group of fans in the know, it is a commercial concern selling cards and packages and if you are prepared to put your faith in a company who can put this statement on their website.
Pub football would like to make it clear that although cases have been won against 3pm football, it still remains cut and dry that unless you are in Wales or Northern Ireland then you are contravening Uefa article 48 What we are highlighting is that MPS and Sky are manipulating the truth with what is acceptable, carring it all in one basket and confusing people. We beleive that closed shop football for public performance should remain in the interest of the game. We are how ever 10000% adminant that you are breaking no law by using your system outside this period when you are using an EU member state broadcaster

I rest my case. :-lmao


PS.

mickypedia said:
Paid-for copyright infringement - an oxymoron if ever there was one. I rest my guffing M'Lord.:-rofl2

So if I own a pub and pay my mate Dave (he's paid for a subscription) for the use of his Sky box and card, that gives me the right to rebroadcast it? :-lmao:-rofl2
 

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rolfw said:
Mark, how do you manage to find so much spurious information, Mickypedia perhaps? :-lmao

Factoids via UEFA website. I respect you, but don't be a jerk like that. Why get ratty? I am not trying to prove anything. Uuumm, maybe I am, hehe.

On the rest of the other guff. So, its the FA alone now (not SKY or UEFA) (sic) who are re-grouping. To do what exactly? The original claim was that of dishonesty - what, exactly will change this next season?

They [SKY + whoever] won't make the same mistake? So, that what had previously been thrown out of court will suddenly - like a phoenix - become grounds for a different kind of case? A ruling on dish type and colour?

Pubfootball's website. Yup, I liked what I read. I'd like to think it was called affordable choice! Next. [edit: dyslexia in the way again. They do say good to use OUTSIDE these periods. Not important, case thrown out of court].

So if I own a pub and pay my mate Dave (he's paid for a subscription) for the use of his Sky box and card, that gives me the right to rebroadcast it?

I know what you are getting at; but let me simply say this - stop using the word rebroadcast. That's the stuff happening in Spain (see other thread).

We are talking about paying; albeit indirectly, to watch a LIVE audio visual service via a foreign service provider.

If others thought like you, we should, as a matter of urgency, start thinking about the thousands of EU pubs that have SKY in their bars, like I had. Yes, let's create a level-playing field.

But, you are right, nothing will come of that - because, you said so earlier and you know what's best.

Get over it. Stick to 'hobbying' satellites - that's totally legal.

.
 

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BarMoo said:
On the rest of the other guff. So, its the FA alone now (not SKY or UEFA) (sic) who are re-grouping. To do what exactly? The original claim was that of dishonesty - what, exactly will change this next season?

They [SKY + whoever] won't make the same mistake? So, that what had previously been thrown out of court will suddenly - like a phoenix - become grounds for a different kind of case? A ruling on dish type and colour?

UEFA have nothing to do with the court cases, the defence lawyers brought up the dishonesty defence and as was said in the original posts, there could at that time (the time of the cases, quite a while ago) be an element of innocence, or ignorance claimed of the legality or lack thereof. Now however, given the publicity, that should not be a defence.

BarMoo said:
Pubfootball's website. Yup, I liked what I read. I'd like to think it was called affordable choice! Next.

Yes and where will they be when it comes to paying the court costs of the licensees?

Not sighted by radar.


BarMoo said:
I know what you are getting at; but let me simply say this - stop using the word rebroadcast. That's the stuff happening in Spain (see other thread).

We are talking about paying; albeit indirectly, to watch a LIVE audio visual service via a foreign service provider.

I won't stop using the word rebroadcast, because that is exactly what they are doing from a legal standpoint, they are not simply trying "to watch a LIVE audio visual service via a foreign service provider." they are showing this to what is best described as an audience, it isn't you or me sitting at home watching, it is a business selling tool.

BarMoo said:
If others thought like you, we should, as a matter of urgency, start thinking about the thousands of EU pubs that have SKY in their bars, like I had. Yes, let's create a level-playing field.

Red herring, as stated earlier, absolutely nothing to do with it, if the local TV providers feel it is breaching their copyright, then it is up to them to take action.

BarMoo said:
But, you are right, nothing will come of that - because, you said so earlier and you know what's best.

Get over it. Stick to 'hobbying' satellites - that's totally legal.

No Mark, I can just see a little further than my own nose. ;)
 

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We can go into extra time on this if you want, but one thing is clear, no publicans are heading toward prison right now, or, in fact, in the near future.

How SKY and xxx [read: whatever authorities rolf chooses to include and/or ommit in his next reply] will thrust themselves and Betty from the local pub into a court this next season is anyones guess.

I am sure rolf, the all seeing eye, will guide the judges what to judge and guff others, here, into what to believe as pseudo-factoid.

I don't have a big eye (I do but its outside the boundaries of this post) - I don't claim anything, I only hope (just to repeat what I said earlier) that the publicans come up trumps.

Rolf can say what he wants (sic). I won't say anymore on this.

.
 

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You really do have the ability to post absolute nonsense on occasions Mark.

All I am trying to do is take wishful thinking and sentimental twaddle out of the discussion. Trying to insinuate that I am acting on behalf of the courts or Sky, even in jest, is offensive, particularly given the nature of our forum.
 
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