Split the Signal ?

[amdaley28]

Hello Everybody.
I want to split the satellite signal so I can use receivers in different rooms.I know I can use a simple splitter,but am afraid that this will cause me to lose some of the signal.
Any idea's anyone.
Regards.
amdaley28

 

[2old4this]

splitting the incoming signal is the easy part. Yes you would lose signal strength but you could insert inline signal boosters.
The harder part is giving each receiver control over the LNB (and in the case of a motorised system, the dish too). Both receivers would be trying to send control pulses back up the coax to the LNB to switch polarisation and/or switch between high/low frequency bands. If you simply split the coax into two, I'm almsost certain that the switching would not work properly. And even if it did, you would end up with one receiver losing picture as the other receiver zapped to a channel on a transponder with a different polarisation/frequency-range.

To resolve these issues, there are switching/distribution devices, which you use together with special LNBs (that provide, for example, both an H output and a V output), or with multiple LNBs.
Conceptually, such a device can be thought of like this: it has typically four LNB inputs (H-low, H-high, V-low, V-high) and inputs from multiple receivers. If one receiver requests a high-band Vertically-polarised transponder, then the switching device conects the receiver to the V-high input. If a second receiver requests the same, it gets it too (and the device can boost the signal using a built-in amplifier). There is no fight for control over the LNB since the switching device always has all possible outputs from the LNB already available for piping to whoever requests them - and each connected receiver thinks it is talking directly to a standard universal LNB.

2old

 

[Channel Hopper]

Depending on the dish type and where its positioned, it might be a twin output LNB could be used to solve the dilema

A bit of extra cable and two more connectors is all thats needed

 

[amdaley28]

Hi All.
2old4this Check your pm.

The two receivers are only watched by myself as the rest of the family watch that other shower S**.
The main thing I would be worried about is signal loss & how to combat it.The dish is a 1.2mt Echostar (Motorised).One receiver would be downstairs & the 2nd one upstairs in my study (spare bedroom).I am awaiting the arrival of an Invacom twin output C120 lnb.The length of cable involved would be about 90ft as my dish is at the end of the garden.
Regards.
amdaley28

 

[2old4this]

If you're only talking about two receivers then the simplest solution is as CH stated above - a twin LNB. But that still leaves you with the issue of controlling the motor. I can only imagine how confused your receiver downstairs will get when it switches back on one day oblivious to the fact that your receiver upstairs had changed the dish position in the meantime...

If indeed you are the only person using them, and assuming you can't be in two places at once and will not need to record one programme while watching something different (or whatever), then I can also suggest a different approach: loop the LNB coax through the first receiver and on to the second. The Echostar receivers support loopthrough. I must admit that I've not tried connecting two Exhostars lie this but I have had Nokias as a slave to the Echostar. Just a thought.

You could also simply use one receiver downstairs (say) and feedthe video upstairs via a video-transmitter (I use this for the bedroom). depends what you are wanting to do with each receiver.

2old

 

[amdaley28]

Hello Everybody.
What I am going to do is as follows.
Echostar 7000HDD Downstairs.This receiver will control the 36v actuator motor.
Nokia 9600 upstairs connected to my PC.The Nokia cannot control the actuator motor so I will have to nip downstairs to change the satellite positions.This is not a problem.I can always fit a remote extender later on.The Nokia will be used for feed hunting & various experiments etc.
As I said in my posts above,what I am trying to do is find the best way to connect the two receivers with the minimum of signal loss.

I recently read an article in Tele Sat mag about a product called a Johannsson Stacker/De Stacker.This device allows you to control a twin output lnb using only one coax cable.The stacker part is fitted near to the dish/ lnb & the de-stacker portion is fitted near to your receivers.It is controlled by 12volts I think.I will have to have another look at the article when I get a chance.

This what I love about this hobby,trying to find solutions to connection/reception problems etc.
Regards.
amdaley28

 

[rolfw]

The stacker will probably not really help much amdaley28 and will probably have an insertion loss, which is never welcome unless it is the only way of doing things. If you don't have a problem with running a second cable, i would be inclined to do it that way.

The stackers are quite useful if you have no realistic way of running a secondary cable.

 

[2old4this]

ok, amdaley28 - then this is exactly the question you raised with me by PM and which I'd started answering by PM.
I'll now stop the PM thread and pick it up here.

Your best solution is a 12v switching device (often called a smart priority switch) "between" the two receivers such that the 7000 acts as master and the 9600 as slave. That's an arrangement I have so that I can use a Nokia9600 with Overflow to scrutinize feeds/etc located on the main motorised system driven by my Echostar dvr7000. I have set them up in such a way that the 7000 drives the dish, but can relinquish control of the LNB to the 9600.

Here's a thread I'd posted here a couple of years ago with more info:
http://www.satellites.co.uk/php-bin/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1357
The descriptive link there still works: http://club.euronet.be/christian.denivelle/gen.html

The LNB is connected to the "input" of the switch, and the receivers are connected respectively to the A and B (or master & slave) outputs. A wire is connected to a 0/12v switching source that will switch voltages on powering down one or other receiver. Often this is pin8 of the TV scart on the receiver, but some receivers have 0/12v switching connectors as well. In any event, the switch reacts to the voltage change and flips state, such that the LNB input switches from A to B output. This allows the other receiver to grab control of the LNB.

As I said in my PM, I'll check all the connectors and LNB & switching settings in my 7000 & 9600, and report here. The good news is that you should go out and buy yourself such a switch, because it works just fine for me (though I do recall it took some experimentation to get it working).

2old

 

[amdaley28]

Great stuff 2old.
I'll look forward to further details on your setup. Regards.
amdaley28

 

[2old4this]

here are the full details:


Settings : Echostar DVR7000HDD
-----------------------------------------
software : Echonav v326
System : motorised
LNBs : 1
Priority : LNB
Switch : None
LNB1 : LNBF


Settings : Nokia 9600
--------------------------
Software : DVB2000 v1.82.6 (29/12/2000)
LNB Setup : LNB1 (LOF1 = 9750; LOF2 = 10600; SWT = 11700)
LNB Control : 12v 1/2
LNB1 : 14/18v Polar
Positioner : settings not used (are intended for DiSEqC)


Connections : Switch
---------------------------
- Dish LNB goes to the "LNB(in)" connector on the priority switch
- "Digital" output goes to the LNB-in of the Nokia
- "Analogue" output goes to the LNB-in of the Echostar
NB: Some switches label those outputs "A" & "B" or 'master" & "slave". Experiment with your switch to find out which way around they need to go to allow the Echostar & Nokia to operate as described below.
- The switch has a 0/12v wire. That needs to go to a 12/0v switching source. See below.


Connections : receivers/etc
---------------------------
- Echostar Analogue F-connector connects to its digital F-connector
- Echostar VCR scart connects to my Video-recorder
- Echostar Decoder scart connects to my D2MAC decoder
- Echostar TV scart connects to the VCR scart of the Nokia (yes, the VCR scart)
- Nokia VCR scart connects to the Echostar TV scart (as mentioned above). This scart should have its pin number 8 connected to the 0/12v switch wire. I soldered it in (use a SCART that you can take apart)
- Nokia TV scart goes to the TV. Note: this therefore is the only connection to the TV so acts as loopthrough from the Echostar even when the NOkia is not switched on.
- Nokia SAT scart is not used.


Operation: using the Nokia 9600:
--------------------------------
- Select satellite using Echostar
- Turn off (i.e. to standby) the Echostar to pass control to the Nokia at that satellite position

Operation: using the Echostar:
------------------------------
- Nokia can be on or off; makes no difference (whenever the Echostar is on, it has control of the LN

 

[amdaley28]

Hello 2ol4this.
Super stuff.As soon as my new universal lnb arrives i will connect it up & follow your instructions.
Many thanks.
Regards.
amdaley28

 

[2old4this]

did it work??

 

[amdaley28]

Hello 2old4this.
I got a twin output Invacom C120 0.3 lnb.
I fitted it & what a difference.
I am going to fit the 2nd coax cable.
At the moment I run the Nokia 9600 using a power passing switch which allows the lnb signal through to the 2 receivers but stops the return signals from the Nokia .It means that the Echostar 7000HDD has control over the dish & lnb.It works fine but I hope to fit the 2nd cable soon.
Regards.
amdaley28

 

[amdaley28]

:-righton UPDATE:
I have replaced the Power passing switch with an active four way splitter by global.This splitter has a Zero signal loss.
The 1st terminal is connected to my Echostar 7000HDD.
The 2nd terminal is connected to my Nokia 9600 with DVB 2000.
The 3rd & 4th terminals are free at the moment.
I use the Echostar to move the dish,switch off the Echostar & use the Nokia 9600 to feed hunt.So far it works a treat.If I am feed hunting on the same polarity i find that i can leave the Echostar on.
Regards.
amdaley28

 

[Channel Hopper]

This splitter has a Zero signal loss.

Is this in writing anywhere ?

Ill buy a thousand if you can back it up

 

[rolfw]

Go to http://www.globalcom.co.uk/communal/frame1.html then splitters, I believe that amdaley28 is refering to the active splitter 4AF. They are refered to as zero loss, but compensated loss would probably be more accurate.

 

[amdaley28]

Hello rolfw.
What do you meen by compensated loss ?
Regards.
amdaley28

 

[rolfw]

Just that the device amplifies the signal a small amount, enough to compensate for the split.

 

[amdaley28]

Thanks for that rolfw.
Regards.
amdaley28 :-righton

 

[pov oatcakes]

when you have got it splitted switch one recevever off and use the other one and when you use the other 1 just switch that one off.