Three Phase generator designs ?

Channel Hopper

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#1
As it says. I have bought a welder which is a three phase model and now require a power supply to run it. Are there any plans out there for a hobbyist to build one ?

I had ideas of running a single phase motor of decent output from the mains, coupled directly to a three phase motor, and tap off the outputs with some chopper/sinoidal circuitry, but need some more info to check this is the right approach.

Any clues / pointers?
 

SST12

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#2
Hi Channel Hopper

What sort of full load current does your welder require, does it require all 3 phases, from my experience most welders only use two phases for the main primery winding on the transformer. Tell us a bit more about it.
 

SST12

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#3
Hi Channel Hopper


If it does only use two phases on the input of the transformer, depending on the primary full load current you could use a 415v to 240v transformer of the appropriate size (which there are plenty about cheap) wired in reverse, single phase mains to the 240v side then connect the 415v side to your welders 2 phase input making sure both transformers and welders earths are conected back to the earth point on your 240v supply.

If you could get some more details from the welder, how many phases connected, is the neutral connected to it, what is the primary current rating (mains input), welding output amps and open circuit voltage - We should be able to come up with a solution for you.


SST12
 

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#4
Thanks for the hints, but this would require more than the standard current of a single mains supply methinks

It is a Tig 200S from AGA (probably from the 90's). Big bastard one, complete with bottle trolley.

Still trying to get a decent picture of the rear, but its a multi voltage switched unit

Label has the following directions
V1 - 220 V - I1 - 29A/37A/47A
V1 - 380V - I1 - 17A/21A/37A
V1 - 414V - I1 - 15A/19A/24A
V1 - 450V - I1 - 15A/19A/24A
V1 - 500V - I1 - 13A/16A/21A

V2 - 26V - 28V - 30V
I2 - 160A / 200A / 250A

(said it was big)
 

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#5
Hi Channel Hopper

From the plate on your welder i think you could run it from the mains, but without seeing it I would get a friendly electrician to have a look at the terminals to be safe.

So if your neighbourly electrician says yes it can be connected to 220v -240v mains, and the insulation is ok, you would need a 63A 220v supply installing to power it, as your max out put of 250 amps would draw 47 Amps from your 220v supply, I dont think you would need to go over 160 Amps for most welding jobs anyway.
 

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#6
Wouldn't it be much easier just getting a 3-phase generator off eBay??? :confused
 

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#7
2cvbloke said:
Wouldn't it be much easier just getting a 3-phase generator off eBay??? :confused
Been looking, but nothing of a compatible output has been on there. (there was one a month or so ago - self build - for around £1000).
 

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#8
Channel Hopper said:
Been looking, but nothing of a compatible output has been on there. (there was one a month or so ago - self build - for around £1000).
So, erm, what's the difference between one generator and another? All I really know about them is they generate electricity... :confused

Wouldn't this one work?:

ebay 330113020694
 

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#9
Channel Hopper said:
Label has the following directions
V1 - 220 V - I1 - 29A/37A/47A
V1 - 380V - I1 - 17A/21A/37A
V1 - 414V - I1 - 15A/19A/24A
V1 - 450V - I1 - 15A/19A/24A
V1 - 500V - I1 - 13A/16A/21A

V2 - 26V - 28V - 30V
I2 - 160A / 200A / 250A

(said it was big)

from the info above it looks like a 2 phase unit. the cables supplying it would have to be at least 10 square mm to run it directly from a single phase 220/230v supply at the highest output setting but if you had access to a 380/400v supply (voltage between 2 phases on a 3 phase supply) you could probaly get away with a 6 sq cable which is far easier to connect and work with. if you were only to use it on its lowest setting (160a output) you could use it off your mains supply in your house with 6sq cable and a 32/40a motor rated circuit breaker (just dont use an electric shower at the same time) or a 3 phase generator with a 400v 30a output would also do (4sq cable would do for this supply) but if you want to use it on the highest setting (250a) the welder would use most of the available current in your house and wouldn't really be practical. a 3 phase gene supplying 40 plus amps won't be cheap and this would be the min you would need to run it at full power but as sst12 said you will probably get as good as you need at 160a output. its no harm to put an isolating switch or an emergency stop switch on the supply if you are planning on using it directly from the mains. i have used mig's and they give way cleaner welds than arc welders and have been run directly form mains supplys. hope this helps.
 

dig deep

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#10
So, U guys don´t have a three phase outlet in Your homes ?

but from the fusebox U can get all three phases and I think U will need it

Have a word with an electric guy:) I am sure he can fix it for a low cost
 

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#11
dig deep said:
So, U guys don´t have a three phase outlet in Your homes ?

but from the fusebox U can get all three phases and I think U will need it

Have a word with an electric guy:) I am sure he can fix it for a low cost
In the UK I'm not sure if all three phases are fed to every house dig, I think it's just single.
 

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#12
PoloMint said:
In the UK I'm not sure if all three phases are fed to every house dig, I think it's just single.
It is very unusual for a house in the UK to have three phase mains installed. Having said that mine does because it was the end house of the original development and the garage was actually the site workshop with stone mason and woodworking equipment in it. The estate was then later added on to as the town grew and more houses were built in the field next to us. Believe it or not the new next door neighbours house supply is fed off two of the phases from my 3 phase supply across my driveway (underground).
 

dig deep

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#13
Well, if U have an electric cooker U should have 3 phase as it needs power.

Just plug in the welder into that socket:-rofl2 U can heat the teapot with the welder :)
 

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#14
dig deep said:
Well, if U have an electric cooker U should have 3 phase as it needs power.
I have an electric cooker, but I only seem to have single phase (I assume 3 phase requires 3 main fuses before the meter?).... :confused
 

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#15
All domestic electric cookers I have seen in the UK have been single phase, as are power showers (12kw sometimes). Do you have three phase cookers in Sweden dig?
 

dig deep

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#16
Yes. Every one with more than 2 plates

At work I have a 2 plate cooker that runs on a single phase

If I want to cook some eggs on it I better start early :)

Yes u need three main fuses to get all 3 phases I guess U have some big fuses to cover for the power We have 10A or 16A for every phase U need more if U run just 1 phase. We have 220 v here 10 A gives just 2KW of power
My MIG need just about that and it runs on 1 phase so I can´t have the light on when I weld :-rofl2
 

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#17
dig deep said:
Yes. Every one with more than 2 plates

At work I have a 2 plate cooker that runs on a single phase

If I want to cook some eggs on it I better start early :)

Yes u need three main fuses to get all 3 phases I guess U have some big fuses to cover for the power We have 10A or 16A for every phase U need more if U run just 1 phase. We have 220 v here 10 A gives just 2KW of power
My MIG need just about that and it runs on 1 phase so I can´t have the light on when I weld :-rofl2
Strange country.... :p

Yes, I think the main fuse is about 60 or 70 amps (I'll have to take a look when I next go down to the cellar to rescue my dishes), I have two for some reason, I think one is for next-door-at-the-back, but has a security tie in place to prevent removal, whereas mine doesn't (and I'm thinking of taking it with me when I move out of spite towards the landlord... 'O'-red ), and there's a third empty slot for I guess the 3rd phase cable... :D

Electricity is fun isn't it? :D
 

dig deep

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#18
No, not strange my friend Evaluated is the word :)

If U have all three phases U don´t have to overload the system as every generator produce just 3 phases. And 50 Amps is more than danger to any living creatur Even our 16A is way to high. No need for EXTRA large cables in the house, need not more than 2.5 cubic centimeters if U carry max 16A

AT home I have 1 phase to the wall outlet, 1 for all the lamps and one is feeding the garage. and , of course, all three power the cooker and owen.

I do have an extra three Phase outlet in the garage so I can use heavy tools and welding stuff. Works fine
 

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#19
dig deep said:
No, not strange my friend Evaluated is the word :)

If U have all three phases U don´t have to overload the system as every generator produce just 3 phases. And 50 Amps is more than danger to any living creatur Even our 16A is way to high. No need for EXTRA large cables in the house, need not more than 2.5 cubic centimeters if U carry max 16A

AT home I have 1 phase to the wall outlet, 1 for all the lamps and one is feeding the garage. and , of course, all three power the cooker and owen.

I do have an extra three Phase outlet in the garage so I can use heavy tools and welding stuff. Works fine
I've personally never experienced anything dangerous when it comes to the heavy gauge cabling, but that's cos it's wise to turn off the power beforehand, and three phase is generally used by businesses that use big machines and stuff.

I don't think I'd have any use for 3-phase in my life, unless I moved to Sweden... :D
 
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