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What is reality really?

2old4this

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#1
More food for thought...

The attempts to create a unified "theory of everything" are premised on the assumption that gravity is at some fundamental level (perhaps at very high energies) the same kind of thing as the other forces (electromagnetic, strong nuclear, weak nuclear). The other forces arise from the exchange of elementary particles generically called bosons. The electromagnetic force, for example, is mitigated by the photon.

If gravity is to be viewed in the same way, then there must be a particle that is exchanged between two bodies experiencing gravitational attraction. This particle (the gravitational boson, or "quantum" of gravity) is nominally called the "graviton". No gravitons have ever been detected. However, as a quantumn particle, the graviton should exhibit wave/particle duality and give rise to gravitional waves. There are serious attempts being made to detect such waves.

But where I struggle is to reconcile this particle (or rather, wave/particle) view with the other view of gravity - that it is actually the warping of space-time by mass. This latter view is the cornerstone of Einstein's Theory of General Relativity - and indeed the reconciliation of that with quantum mechanics has still not been achieved. But the view of gravity as geometric curvature in the fabric of four-dimensional space-time has nevertheless been validated by observable phenomena such as gravitational lensing.

If there are two equally 'correct' and accurate views (a wave/particle or quantum-mechanical view, and a geometric or Einstinean/relativistic view) then the "real" nature of gravity must be something else, something "deeper".

To understand what that might be, consider this: if a theory of everything exists then it will amount to a quantisation of space-time geometry. What would that mean? Well it would mean that space-time is not analogue continuum, but is actually composed of discreet chunks.

Perhaps in finally understanding what gravity is and establishing a "theory of everything" we will have our first indication that reality may in fact be a digital construct - a simulation.

2old
 

wolsty

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#2
I'm really struggling with this concept. It's difficult to describe and explore in words and I don't have the maths to work through Einstein's equations.

However, at my very primitive level of understanding, it seems that String Theory, or its later development (M)embrane Theory has gone some way to reconciling the differences between Quantum Mechanics and Relativity. We're dealing here with units at, or slightly larger than the Planck Length, so there's good reason to think that there is no smaller size of 'fundamental particle' yet to be discovered and with 10 or 11 dimensions, some of which are tightly rolled up on themselves. If, therefore, S Theory or M theory is shown to be correct, the GUT or Theory of Everything would be a natural consequence.

We're then left with puzzles such as a gravitational force which is, in some circumstances, repulsive, explaining Dark Matter/Dark Energy and its role, a possibility that dimensions (ie size) are not absolute and whether the Arrow of Time exists and, if it does, whether it can be reversed. Oh, and then there's FTL travel.

I wish I was thirty years younger.

:cool: :cool:
 

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#3
Since gravity exhibits its properties at such huge distances, a galaxy can attract another, a black hole keeps the galaxy together, and so on, there is every chance that humans as yet do not have the knowhow to work at the level allowing us to determine the machanics behind it

There is a launch soon of a new satellite, that should enable us to find out if the gravitational pull or lensing is a quantifiable unit. If it works in a way that makes sense (some answers rather than more questions) it should allow us to work out the right mechanisms to assign the bosun into the usual mathematical formulae, and link it to dimensional space and the observable universe

Who knows , anti gravity might be in your vehicle of choice this Christmas.
 

2old4this

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#4
In the wave/particle view, an antigravity device is easy to imagine. All we would need to do is insert a barrier of some kind between two masses such that they could no longer exchange gravitons, or such that their gravitational waves are deflected. A kind of gravitational mirror.

However, in the geometric (Einstinian) view this is conceptually more difficult. How can any kind of a barrier do anything about the fact that the masses are warping space/time around themselves? Can a barrier reverse the curvature of space/time?

This is exactlty the kind of conceptual conundrum which makes quantum gravity so difficult to imagine. What does it mean to talk in terms of quantizing geometry?

2old
 

Razor

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#5
Only when someone has the nerve and the bravery to really question this coral that Einstein seems to have fenced us into, will we really find the answers we seek.

Someone has to HEY lets break the twinning between TIME and the speed of LIGHT and look at each as separate entity. They can not be so intertwined, time is the straight line we all know but light can be bent ,reflected, and be sucked into black holes never to escape so just why should we consider them as one and the same.

The same can be said about MASS and GRAVITY break them up and never again let ourselves be fenced in by one mans rules, and unproven rules at that. Gravity keeps electrons in orbit around their nucleus and that is the same for 1 electron (hydrogen) or an atom with 92 electrons (plutonium). This we can see we can use particle accelerators and smash up atoms into very small bits with very unusual names. But can see the bits only the tracks left by these bits and never do ask where the small piece of gravity is gone.

Einstein was a genus, maybe the best there ever was, but we must start to think for ourselves.
 

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#6
All we would need to do is insert a barrier of some kind between two masses such that they could no longer exchange gravitons, or such that their gravitational waves are deflected. A kind of gravitational mirror.

Cavorite can be manufactured in most modern kilns using household cleaning materials, and when applied to a surface, exhibits properties suitable for those adventuring beyond the Earths surface

Make sure to take plenty of provisions, chickens are a useful source of eggs on the trip out, with the main animal serving as a useful three day feast on the way back.

Do not make soup until gravity has been restabished within the capsule, it can get messy.
 

Razor

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#7
And if all else fails we can point our anti graviton shield at 13e and see what we can pick up.
 

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#8
Also....... When in space we may have to manage without some things we take for granted here on Earth like HOT WATER.

C.H. should feel right at home )(-)( )(-)( )(-)( )(-)(
 

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#9
Hot water is easy to create in space, especially when orbiting up to 2 AUs from the sun.

Anyhow with the plumbing up the spout, Im still in hot water, but not of the liquid type.
 

2old4this

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#10
I wonder if anyone has ever thought of a material/technique to enhance gravity? It could be employed in exactly the reverse way as was Dr. Cavor's paste. By inserting a gravity-enhancing layer on the upper part of your rocket, you could amplify the moon's gravitational field such that it overcomes the Earth's. And since there is matter all around us in the universe, there is in any arbitrary direction a source of gravity waiting to be amplified. So you'd just stick this sheet of material in the direction you want to move, et voila.

Perhaps one day we'll have high-energy particle beams that are shot forward from a rocket and focussed to create a nearby back hole that would suck us in that direction. They could call it the Bootstrap Drive.

Do you think I'm turning into Mikeey?

2old
 

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#11
Unfortunately here on earth and within the bounds of reality (just for a moment), the gravitational pull of one object on another is proportional to the masses of both objects and indirectly proportional to the square of distance between them.

We carried out an experiment at secondary school using some large iron spheres on a freely rotating nylon line and measured the angular movement of them when another set was placed close to them.

The idea of a gravity enhancer, would for now mean increasing the mass of either the craft, or the attractor, and would therefore be useful only for the moving of non time essential goods around the place.

Unfortunately, just like the cavorite venetian blinds, something would need to cover up the attraction effect when the craft is near its destination, or repointed to a suitable object on another coordinate, to cause deceleration, unless the use of thrusters was considered.

I need to partake in some beermat technology discussions in the next few days to work out a solution.
 
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#12
Unfortunately, the laws of conservation of energy prevent any such thing, quite simply you just can't do it! This rules out Cavorite, the Dean Drive, strange gyroscope arrangements, you name it!

You can't use a waterfall to turn a waterwheel, and also use that waterwheel to pump enough water back uphill to keep itself turning. That's perpetual motion, if it were true, energy would just be created from nothing, and the wheel would spin ever faster and faster ......

Unforunately, the opposite is happening, the universe is "cooling down", and one day will reach "heat death", when everything will just stop.

Some sci fi tries to get round this. Asimov has a "heat pump" between universes (The Gods Themselves). Arthur Clarke likes putting different new space drives in his novels, but they're well within the laws of science.

Unfortunately, a "hyperspace" jump isn't possible either, since it would violate causation rules in special relitivity, you can't have 2 events each causing the other, it's not just that things can't go faster than light.

I'm a complete spoilsport, sorry.
 

T_G

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#13
Ahhh Perpetuum Mobile, sought after almost as much as creating gold from lead. So close yet so far.....

I always thought the universe will expand until it one day slows down, and then start to pull back towards the centre, untill all matter collides, condenses and collapses until the big bang starts all over again. Some sort of strange two stroke motor...

Regarding the possibilities of space travel and propulsion systems, the creation of miniature black holes was mention in a book, can't remember which one. Wasn't there a bit of a scare that the funny magnetic accelerator in Swisserland could create a black hole if the experiments there went funny? There was also a movie I believe...
 
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#14
2-stroke? Hang on a bit, are u saying we're living inside a giant motor scooter? Never heard that one before!
Also, in line with next-door thread, is it a real or computer simulated scooter?

More seriously, yes perpetual motion, all patent applications on this nowadays have to be accompanied by working models!

There's all sorts of attempts to "cheat" those nasty laws of physics. In Contact, Carl Sagan had "galactic scale engineering", moving interstellar matter in bulk around the universe (through "wormholes") to delay the "heat death". He suggested that's where quasars came from (earlier, he'd suggested that Phobos and Deimos are hollowed out and artificial)!
 

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#15
'Hollowed out and artificial' always spring to mind when I hear the words ......Carl Sagan. :D


L.
 

T_G

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#16
spiney said:
2-stroke? Hang on a bit, are u saying we're living inside a giant motor scooter? Never heard that one before!
Also, in line with next-door thread, is it a real or computer simulated scooter?
Now you're talking! Exactly! As I come from an motorcycle engineering background this is something i can relate to!
All the quantum and donuts and other theories are too complicated for me O-Ha I go for the simple "TG's 2 Stroke Big Bang Motor Theory" for everything.
 
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#17
Poor Prof Sagan, I know he annoyed lots of people.....

Maybe we're actually living inside a petrol lawnmover engine, that would be 1-stroke, consistent with what's currently being observed .....
 

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#18
Being pushed by Carl Sagan ?
 
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#19
Nope, I am not in contact with the spirit world ......
 

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#20
spiney said:
Unfortunately, the laws of conservation of energy prevent any such thing, quite simply you just can't do it! This rules out Cavorite, the Dean Drive, strange gyroscope arrangements, you name it!

You can't use a waterfall to turn a waterwheel, and also use that waterwheel to pump enough water back uphill to keep itself turning. That's perpetual motion, if it were true, energy would just be created from nothing, and the wheel would spin ever faster and faster ......

Unforunately, the opposite is happening, the universe is "cooling down", and one day will reach "heat death", when everything will just stop.
I'm a complete spoilsport, sorry.
But we have already done this in another thread, the simple black hole theory, that anything that is not of this time, and not of this matter, is completely equalised by whats on the otherside of something that cannot be defined by the physics of this side.

Presently (I use that term in the loosest sense), there is, to all intents, a disappearance of mass into the hole. At the other side however (assuming its notjust a big pressure equalising bag) , what used to be 'cooling' is now heating up, and thats assuming the time aspect is like the same as on this side.
Who knows, time may be the great healer, we may not actually be able to alter it, but whatever happens is just a fluid motion between the two sides, reversible whenever one side is 'fuller' than the other.