Which SKY+ in a fringe area?

[Labarum]

Yes, I guess so; but why buy that box when there is so little HD output?

Sky are great and milking their customers.

 

[PaulR]

But if Ch4 and Ch5 go FTA

C4 has about a year left with its contract with $ly for encryption, Five have about another year after that.

C4 (along with E4 and More 4) will almost certainly go FTA but Five have a different view on these things and will probably sign up for encryption again. Possibly something to do with the number of American series that they show perhaps?

 

[2cvbloke]

but Five have a different view on these things and will probably sign up for encryption again. Possibly something to do with the number of American series that they show perhaps?

If that's the case, then until analogue is switched off, we'll be stuck with this if we have no FTV cards...

 

[Topper]

The quality of that is slightly better than my channel five analogue reception from Winter Hill although it does seem to vary on a minute by minute basis.

 

[IanMWard]

iceman, you say that the Sky HD box is a sky + with HDMI output, do you mean that if I buy an HD box and don't have an HD subscription, it will still work as a Sky + box SD with HDMI output?

I've heard it said that the Thomson HD box has a very good tuner for fringe areas and if it's HDMI too, sounds like a good option...

Cheers, Ian

 

[dxsat]

What you suggest is possible in theory but very few will have asked for a HD box without the HD channels, I suspect.
HDMI picture quality on SD channels is superior to the same on a scart connection.
The £10/month fee for recording applies now if you don't subscribe to any sky package. It will be interesting to know what happens if you ask for this only on a HD box.
There are two activation signals sent to your box by Sky: one for the channels you have subscribed to, and another to turn Sky+ recording on.
There are a number of differences between a Sky+ and a HD box, but essentially they function identically. HD has larger hard drive.
You will always get BBC HD on a HD box even if you have no subscription to Sky.
BBC HD is a superior offering to SkyHD, in that all of the content is in HD. On Sky, content on a HD channel will be in SD part of the time, particularly on Sports. The only channels that are HD all of the time on Sky are movies HD1 & 2. My view is that the production equipment and cameras are better on the BBC channel, have a look at Planet Earth and How we built Britain in HD.

Sensitivity is another issue, all Sky receivers are very close in performance these days in fringe areas. The only HD box at the moment is made by Thomson (Pace bring one out at the end of the year).
Both Thomson (SD & HD) boxes are a slightly worse than Pace, but the difference is very small. The best Sky+ box is the Pace TDS 470n Sky+ Version 3. The tuner is identical to the old PAce 430n, but quality control is better than the 430n, you know it will work well.
The very best box for fringe remains the Pace 2600 CI, all you have read about it is true.
However, digital being an all or nothing affair, even a Pace 2600 will not save your viewing if the signal is declining in the evenings, as it does in Madrid.

If, for example, you are watching BBC2 in Madrid around 10 pm on a 1.8m in the west of Madrid, the Pace Sky+ V3 picture will start to break up.
At about 10.20 you'll notice some disturbance on a 2600. By 11-00pm, the Sky+ picture will be unwatchable, but you will just about be able to get sense out of a programme on a 2600, with regular blocking.

Note that any recording made on a Sky + will play back with any break- up removed, making it impossible to watch.
A Pace 810XE HD FTA receiver is a good alternative to a SkyHD. You can get these for under £100 in the UK. Picture and sound quality (Dolby 5.1 on BBC HD) is very high, all SD looks better, but of course it is a FTA box, not suitable for everyone.. Sensitivity is the same as the Pace Sky+.

 

[billnot]

The Thomson HD box does have very good tuners, but it also has a fatal weakness which is why I have abandoned it.

If it receives a weak signal, the internal clock goes crazy and the time jumps forward. This results not only in anything being recorded failing, but future recordings also to fail with the message "Failed - power cut".

The only way round this is to ensure that it's recording something on both inputs from a strong transponder at any time when the signal from the default transponder (11778V) is weak. Even then, it's hit and miss.

I have had Sky HD since May, but a few weeks ago both the missus and I got fed up with stuff failing to record, and having to set everything up again. Even though I'm still having to pay the HD fee, I now have the card married to a Pace 3100 which is performing impeccably.

It's a shame as in many ways the Thomson HD box is first class.

I'm waiting for the Pace HD digibox to come out, in the hope that will be better.

 

[dxsat]

Interesting- haven't seen this problem at all.
I noticed Sky Anytime recordings vanish if the signal is too weak.
Can't you do anything to get the default transponder up in strength a bit?

 

[denis1501]

Crikey, I could have wrote this myself!
Only difference between your story and mine is that I went back to a V3 Sky + box!
regards
D.

The Thomson HD box does have very good tuners, but it also has a fatal weakness which is why I have abandoned it.

If it receives a weak signal, the internal clock goes crazy and the time jumps forward. This results not only in anything being recorded failing, but future recordings also to fail with the message "Failed - power cut".

The only way round this is to ensure that it's recording something on both inputs from a strong transponder at any time when the signal from the default transponder (11778V) is weak. Even then, it's hit and miss.

I have had Sky HD since May, but a few weeks ago both the missus and I got fed up with stuff failing to record, and having to set everything up again. Even though I'm still having to pay the HD fee, I now have the card married to a Pace 3100 which is performing impeccably.

It's a shame as in many ways the Thomson HD box is first class.

I'm waiting for the Pace HD digibox to come out, in the hope that will be better.

 

[billnot]

Can't you do anything to get the default transponder up in strength a bit?

Apart from moving, no. I already have a 3,1m dish, the best Invacom quattro I could find (one advantage of helping others as a hobby!), a Jesmay multiswitch with individual attenuation for each of the four inputs, and have tested several feedhorns.

Everybody here loses 11778V for a period. Mine is down to 3 hours; the average with a 2,4m dish is 6 hours.

Local dealers simply will not currently supplt Sky HD because of the problems.

If you search, dare I mention it, Digitalspy, you will find a great many threads where even those in the UK have had the same problem.

 

[Riverman]

Everybody here loses 11778V for a period. Mine is down to 3 hours; the average with a 2,4m dish is 6 hours.

I am interested to know if you lose any channels and for how long?

I am moving to Javea (spain) in the new year and was thinking of taking my Thomson Sky HD box and getting a 2.4M dish, will I lose any channels with this setup, which ones, and for how long? or will I get everything 24hours a day

Thanks for any advice. :-snowman

 

[dxsat]

....and getting a 2.4M dish....

Make sure it's not a FortecStar 2.4m like the one Maplin sell.

 

[Riverman]

Make sure it's not a FortecStar 2.4m like the one Maplin sell.

so what is a good dish to go for, and any ideas on how much one should cost?

 

[iceman]

so what is a good dish to go for, and any ideas on how much one should cost?

No idea about how much it would cost you,but see if you can source a 2.3m Famaval on your market.

_http://www.famaval.pt/en/tiki-index.php?page=antenas_230

 

[dxsat]

Your best option for a 2.4m is a Prodelin 2.4m offset Series 1251 with a midband gain of 47.6 dBi (midband is normally 11.5ghz)
A cheaper option is the Prodelin prime focus series 1252 47.0 dBi midband gain
The Famaval is a 2.3m( usable area) prime focus 46.9 dBi gain @11.7ghz

The gain figures are taken from manufacturers' websites. The Famaval will have a lower figure at 11.5 ghz.
You'll have a bit of a problem finding Prodelin as Famaval are much more common in your part of Spain. Prodelin are composite construction, a far better method than steel or aluminium, it's more accurate and is not affected by high temperatures. The reason installers like Famaval ( the so- called 'Portugese' dishes) is that they are much cheaper for them to buy. Prodelin and ChannelMaster are much more expensive to buy trade. A well-installed 2.4m offset composite dish such as Prodelin or ChannelMaster should have enough gain to receive BBC2 in the evenings in Javea. However, this is theoretical, as I have never heard of anyone on the costas with one of these more expensive dishes installed.

 

[bignick]

The reason installers like Famaval ( the so- called 'Portugese' dishes) is that they are much cheaper for them to buy.

AND that they can be extended to 3.1m if required rather than getting a new dish if for instance, the signal weakens.
AND that they can be fine adjusted Az & El by a person with limited ability and equipment when using the polar mount and threaded Az Bar, which also makes them easy to install.
And, with the correct setup they will do as well as any similar offset (have you tried them fitted with the large 'Cyprus' feedhorn yet?).

I admit the only large offsets I have worked with are the Anderson and Supral 2.4's - I would take a Famaval over either of them.:-sball

Cheers

Nick