Advice Needed G4 Halogen 10W to G4 3W or 1W LED problems again

[Topper]

In an effort to reduce our electricity consumption still further, I decided to have a play with some G4 led bulbs as shown, Not sure what my requirements were going to be as regards wattage, but we both decided we wanted daylight bulbs as opposed to cool white or warm white. Apart from the proven beneficial to the mood through production of seratonin, of the daylight bulbs, we both prefer the 6000 or A, A+ colour.

As with others reported on here, I have problems with direct replacements, as Evan has previously reported it is suspected that the transformer is to blame and I tend to agree but until I find a source I will have to live with a situation where for each ceiling light there are 5 legs and I can only replace up to 3 of the 3W LEDs and combine them with two halogens, otherwise I get a flash from the lamps when switching on and then nothing.

So it looks like I will have to source some replacement circular transformers unless anyone else has any ideas. Oh and there is not enough room in the lamp fitting to put a simple smoothing circuit. The second bulb lit picture is difficult to take with a digital camera, however I do think that amply demonstrates the non smooth supply to the lamps which is affecting them starting and staying on.

 

[Channel Hopper]

How old are the existing transformers ? Many modern LED designs will pulse or not actually work with older stepdown technology .



Also, you are really only saving energy in the height of summer since the older bulbs also provide heat as a biproduct and the chandeliers within the Topper residence will currently be warming up the floors on the first floor independent of the palace boiler thermostat setting.

 

[Tururu]

Transformer as such, you do not have to boot.
They seem old switched sources, will need more bulbs (more consumption) to start and may end up leaving an old light bulb if it does not start with all led.

If you continue with problems, you would have to switch by switched sources, small 12V 1A (quality) goes for 2 € and you could connect 3 3W lamps, connect 4 and see if the intensity of the rest is not low, the source is limited to 1Amp And not broken, this is important, if we do not put a limited supply, will give more light and more consumption, lasting 1 year, 2 bumper (reality with 10W 12V led)
On Ebay search ..... 310796230387

Looking at Ebay these bulbs, you have them from 2800-3200 Warw White and 6000-6500 Cool white
6000-6500 is cold blaco (normal fluorescence, white with blue tone).
I do not use these bulbs because of the bad dissipation, reaching very high temperatures (> 50ºC) shortening their useful life
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Transformador como tal, no tienes por el arranque que hacen.
Parecen fuentes conmutadas antiguas, necesitara mas bombillas (mas consumo) para que arranque y puede que al final tengas que dejar una bombilla vieja si no arranca con todas las de led.

Si continuas con problemas, lo tendrias que cambiar por fuentes conmutadas, pequeñas 12V 1A (de calidad) sale por 2€ y podrias conectar 3 lamparas de 3W, conecta 4 y mira si no baja la intensidad del resto, la fuente esta limitada a 1Amp y no se rompera, esto es importante, si no ponemos una fuente limitada, dara mas luz y mas consumo, durando 1año, 2 tope (realidad con led de 10W 12V)
En Ebay busca.....310796230387

Mirando en Ebay estas bombillas, las tienes de 2800-3200 Warw White y 6000-6500 Cool white
6000-6500 es blaco frio (fluorescente normal, blanco con tono azul).
No uso estas bombillas por el tema de su mala disipacion, alcanzando temperaturas muy altas (>50ºC) acortando su vida util

 

[Topper]

How old are the existing transformers ? Many modern LED designs will pulse or not actually work with older stepdown technology .



Also, you are really only saving energy in the height of summer since the older bulbs also provide heat as a biproduct and the chandeliers within the Topper residence will currently be warming up the floors on the first floor independent of the palace boiler thermostat setting.

When manufactured no idea, bought light fittings from Argos about 5 years ago

As regards energy saving, there has so far been a definite drop i.e. 15 - 20 % in the house as a whole, so I still feel it is a worthwhile exercise, also the daylight bulbs also help with macular degeneration as it arrives in old age


Not sure what to say re the colour, they are definitely white/daylight

 

[Channel Hopper]

As regards energy saving, there has so far been a definite drop i.e. 15 - 20 % in the house as a whole, so I still feel it is a worthwhile exercise, also the daylight bulbs also help with macular degeneration as it arrives in old age

Light improvement and well-being aside, is your primary heating system electricity or other ?
I will admit you would be saving something by using an alternative energy source to that coming in through the copper (including oil).

(which does provide a valid argument for raising supply voltages into domestic properties, but that is for another day)

 

[Terryl]

Arte these supposed to be direct plug in replacements for that type of G4 halogen bulb?? Are the halogen's a DC rated bulb or AC?

If DC then there should be no problems if the halogen takes an AC to DC power converter to run them.

Is there only one converter (transformer) and you daisy chain the lamps or is there one on each lamp?

If daisy chained and you get a flash or flicker when turning the lamps on with all LED's in them then you will have to replace the converter as it's too old to handle the drop in the load.

Five Halogen bulbs at 10 watts apiece equals 50 watts, at a 12 volt DC supply that's 4.1 amps, if the AC to DC converter is an older switching type then the initial startup DC current may not be enough to get it started with 5 LED's.

Five 1 watt LED's will only draw about .4 amps, that may be too low for the converter (transformer) to start, even five of the 3 watt LED's may be too low for starting current.

If you have one lying around a 12 volt 1.5 amp (or larger) wall wart could be used to test this.

Or if you can find one like this it would be a good replacement.
Mean Well LED Power Supply - LPF series Dimmable Constant Current LED Driver with Built-in PFC - 25W - 12V DC | Constant Current LED Drivers | LED Drivers & Power Supplies | Installation & Power Supplies | Super Bright LEDs

 

[Topper]

Arte these supposed to be direct plug in replacements for that type of G4 halogen bulb?? Are the halogen's a DC rated bulb or AC?

If DC then there should be no problems if the halogen takes an AC to DC power converter to run them.

Is there only one converter (transformer) and you daisy chain the lamps or is there one on each lamp?

If daisy chained and you get a flash or flicker when turning the lamps on with all LED's in them then you will have to replace the converter as it's too old to handle the drop in the load.

Five Halogen bulbs at 10 watts apiece equals 50 watts, at a 12 volt DC supply that's 4.1 amps, if the AC to DC converter is an older switching type then the initial startup DC current may not be enough to get it started with 5 LED's.

Five 1 watt LED's will only draw about .4 amps, that may be too low for the converter (transformer) to start, even five of the 3 watt LED's may be too low for starting current.

If you have one lying around a 12 volt 1.5 amp (or larger) wall wart could be used to test this.

Or if you can find one like this it would be a good replacement.
Mean Well LED Power Supply - LPF series Dimmable Constant Current LED Driver with Built-in PFC - 25W - 12V DC | Constant Current LED Drivers | LED Drivers & Power Supplies | Installation & Power Supplies | Super Bright LEDs

Thanks for the info T, it is a ceiling mounted light fitting and requires a circular transformer to fit inside the fixing base (rose), either that or I will have to rewire and fit the long transformer above the plaster board, which may be the end result if I am unable to source a suitably shaped smoothing transformer, as I said in my original post I am sure it is the older transformer as I am able to run three LEDS fine with two 20W halogens, but with two 10W the brighness decreases, but it is the replacement transformer that is the problem. As regards the wiring, daisy chaining etc, I will strip one down tomorrow whilst SWMBO is not around and see how it is wired. Sorry I am not familiar with the term wallwart, but assume you mean some sort of phone charger?

CH I have gas central heating

photo taken with -3 exposure on my phone

 

[Terryl]

Sorry, redneck terminology coming out....

Scooter and Billy-Bob's Websionary:
"Wall wart....any type of AC to DC adapter that plugs into a wall AC socket to run a phone, or other DC powered device, looks like a bump on the wall".........See things that make electrical things run without having to use the battery off the tractor.

 

[Channel Hopper]

CH I have gas central heating

Then the notch you have adjusted the thermostat upwards to compensate for the loss of heat from the lights is probably insignificant wrt the gas bill.

Or is it ?

 

[Topper]

Ah no I took two down like that 5 years ago, when I fitted the ones I am trying to fettle at the moment, since then the house has risen back up a few feet, hence why we now have a three storey property. I put them on the bonfire down the road and was amazed to find these the following day in the ashes