13 degrees, 19.2 degrees and 23.5 degrees

AdamW · Mar 25, 2017

Hi,

I'm near Southampton and have an existing 80cm dish focused on hotbird at 13 degrees east. I also have a bracket with which I have added another lnb at 19.2 degrees. Both are fine. My issue is I want to add another lnb to pick up 23.5 and I can't seem to pick it up. I'm looking to get the Canal Digitaal channels (and can organise a subscription for that, so no problem that end).

I've posted a photo of the existing set up. The left lnb is receiving hotbird, and the one to the right is receiving 19.2. (Ignore the broken bracket thing on the right! I need to replace that). Can anyone help? Or should I get a multi-lnb dish and have that installed? (Installers around here seem reluctant to install multi SATs though, but may be able to find one). I think I can't really get a monoblock, because I have a smaller dish downstairs pointing at 5 west and need them to all go through a diseqc switch.

Thanks in advance for anyone's help,
Adam

Analoguesat · Mar 25, 2017

Hi Adam, welcome to the forum

A 4 degrees separation is too close for a full sized lnb on an 80cm dish. You might get away with slimline "bullet" lnb for 23.5E, although they can suffer from rain on the cover during bad weather if the signals are a bit down on power due to the lnb being offset.

davemurgtroyd · Mar 25, 2017

An adjustable monoblock does not usually have an inbuilt DiSEqC switch so would fit in with your existing switch.

sonnetpete · Mar 25, 2017

I'd try for 23.5E with another Alps LNB, however from the photo, it look like your bracket is curved outwards. I'd try to bend it so that your 23.5 LNB is pointing more towards the dish centre. You may also want to think about playing about with the LNB elevation.

AdamW · Mar 25, 2017

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the advice.

I'm going to buy an Alps lnb to see if that solves it. It turns out my 'spare' one doesn't work properly, so hopefully with a new lnb it picks it up. If that doesn't work I'll try an adjustable monoblock. I'll keep you updated.

Thanks once again, fingers crossed!
Adam

a33 · Mar 25, 2017

The multifeedrail should have a skew of about 13.28 degrees in Southampton, see SatLex Digital :: Technik :: Rechner :: WF Toroidal Rechner
(lnb for 13E lowest, LNB for 23E highest).
I would place 19E at the center, above the arm: was that your plan also?

The space for an extra LNB: 13-19E is 7.54 degree azimuth difference, 19-23E is 5.04 degree azimuth difference. So you can check if you have room for another ALPS LNB, calculating distances with reference to your actual spacing of 13-19E.

BTW You could use a monoblock LNB for 19-23E, if you want.
4.3 Degree monoblocks for 80cm dishes are not uncommon, I believe. (Though I'm not sure how they would 'fit' in several parts of the UK, as they are probably made for central Europe?)
Even diseqc 1.0 switches can be cascaded; most important issue is if your receiver gives repeated diseqc commands. You could use a 2/1 'option' diseqc 1.0 switch; a 4/1 switch if your monoblock has two outputs available; or a trick with a splitter combined with a 4/1 switch (or a small modification of the 4/1 switch) to combine one output of a monoblock with one or two other LNBs.
If your receiver supports diseqc 1.1, a 1.1-switch can also be used in combination with a monoblock.

Greetz,
A33

AdamW · Mar 27, 2017

Hi a33,

Thanks for all the great information and the link. I especially like that link, as it is all very clear on one page and easy to understand.

I think I have enough room from the calculations for the lnb, but it is probably close! (The dish is in a slightly awkward location, so haven't measured precisely).

I'm hoping not to need to realign the dish, but if I need to, I'll probably get an installer to do it.

I've ordered an alps lnb, which should hopefully arrive by/at the weekend. I'll let you know how I get on.

Re the monoblock, etc. hopefully I don't need one, but I imagine (in my non-expert opinion) in theory the Dutch one might work if the distance between the dishes is factually the same here as in Holland and the elevation difference is factored in (and that link you gave could be used to calculate a theoretical Dutch place).

Thanks once again, I'll let you know how I get on.

Adam

Ghostleader · Mar 27, 2017

Curved bracket is a good shout mate as said, definitely improves the offset LNB's performance.

jeallen01 · Mar 27, 2017

19E generally has very strong signals in the UK, and so it could probably be "slightly" misaligned to the W to allow the LNB for 23.5E to be correctly aligned as that is likely to be the most critical - similarly, you might get away with then slightly misaligning the 13E LNB to the W as that satellite also has very strong signals from many of the transponders.

As for Diseqc switches, surely a simple 1.0 switch would be adequate for the 3x LNBS and would be the simplest solution?

a33 · Mar 27, 2017

To add to @Ghostleader and @jeallen01 :
As 23E has certainly not the strongest signals, it could be risky to place the LNB for it so far off-center, if it really is an important satellite for you.
Some people would even put 23E in the center, above the arm! (and not 19E as I suggested earlier)

@jeallen01 : he also has a dish with 5W, so he needs all the inputs of the 4/1.

@AdamW : What would be your problem with adjusting the dish yourself?
As you allready have reception on 13E and 19E, only small adjustments are needed, and you don 't have to start 'from scratch'..

greetz,
a33

Ghostleader · Mar 27, 2017

No that's very true, I had 23E when there was a few more FTA channels on 23E, remember the HD channel with the "Folk" music with all the scantily clad stunning woman? lol

jeallen01 · Mar 27, 2017

USER=332642]@a33[/USER]

Was late to this thread and so missed the 5W point, but a 4-1 Diseqc switch would still do (and be easier to set up than some of the other suggestions).

PS: should simultaneous feeds to 2 receivers (or one with 2 LNB inputs for recording 2 channels at the same time) ever be required from several of the satellites, then single LNBS could be replaced by Twins with a 2nd switch for those.

AdamW · Apr 18, 2017

Hi everyone,

In the end I had a new dish installed with the main focus being on 13°. I am receiving 19.2° and 23.5° great. 23.5° seemed very fussy, but not a problem in the end. I think my previous dish was problematic with the less than stable bracket.

I am now watching Dutch TV :-)

One small issue I didn't think about was I have one cable coming through, which is not a problem in itself. I have that cable going to one box which is looping through to another box! The problem is I have three boxes in total (all with official cards). Is there a switch/splitter I could use inside?!

Adam

AdamW · Apr 18, 2017

I just re-read what I wrote and maybe it doesn't make sense. Essentially I have the cable from the diseqc box coming in.... That goes into receiver one. Receiver one has a loop through to receiver two. Receiver two and three do not have loop throughs :-(

Adam

sonnetpete · Apr 18, 2017

I'm on slightly shaky ground here, as running more than one receiver isn't something I've done. However, are you planning to run the receivers simultaneously or one at a time, in which case there's probably a switch that will do the job. Be aware that you can't easily split your feed from the multisat due to the LNB voltage variation for the vertical and horizontal transponders.

AdamW · Apr 18, 2017

Hi Sonnettepete,

I'm planning on just using one at a time. I think I can just get a splitter as long as I only use one at a time, which is what I previously did with the two boxes, but wondered if anyone had any advice really.

Adam

blademedia · Apr 18, 2017

Inverto do a nice LNB with DiSEqC 1.0 commands
Inverto - IDLM-TWNM20-4FDMN-8PP -

a33 · Apr 18, 2017

AdamW said:
Receiver one has a loop through to receiver two. Receiver two and three do not have loop throughs :-(

For that you can use a priority switch (or "smart priority switch"). It costs less than 10 euro over here, I believe.
If the receiver on the 'master' output is switched OFF (i.e. no power on LNB input; with some receivers 'standby' is not enough!), the control of the LNB is given to the receiver at the 'slave' output.

BTW. With two receivers ON, the slave receiver also has reception on the same polarity and band as the master receiver; so in that way the switch works as a 'splitter'.
However, the switching seems to be done with PIN-diodes, so it isn't really a splitter, but this is a lucky by-effect.

greetz,
A33

13 degrees, 19.2 degrees and 23.5 degrees

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